Getting a little sick of it all

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:bCy1c.37482$PR3.765164@attbi_s03...
My plane that I just bought this week literally was handed to me.
Actually,
my "network" found it and made some initial queries. For once, it was a
decent-condition, all paperwork checked out, no-lien airplane that all
came
together within 3-4 days. I jumped on it.

The best planes are never advertised. Your "network" is the way most
really
good planes sell.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


And they often go in a matter of hours or less.

he's got something to hide... walking away is always the best thing

just tell him flat out.. no.. you are not interested..

there is a plane out there for you.. and an honest seller.. who understands
the issue of a "pre buy"

what was the explanation for the missing two years?

BT

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Is it just me or is the whole aviation industry like this I have not found
1
airplane yet that some one was not hiding something or trying to hide.
This
last airplane that I looked at was great kinda sounded to good to be true,
seller lost job and needed money the logs looked like they were in order
had
2 missing years but had a good explanation and a NTSB search showed no
accident history. I told him that id have an A&P come over tomorrow and do
a
pre buy and review his logs again. He said no you can have my mechanic do
your pre buy as no inspection plates are coming off with out my mechanic
taking them off. I told him that you can have your mechanic do all the
wrenching but I need my mechanic look it over before I buy. He refused to
let me do a pre buy so I walked away and went home.

He called me up later in the evening and said to tell him now if I wanted
it
or not and real persistent that I give him an answer right now, I told him
that I am really interested and as I told him earlier today I need to do a
pre buy first before I can make that decision. He said flat out no pre buy
from an independent A&P and his reasoning were that an independent A & P
did
not know his airplane "Cessna 172" and if the independent A & P found
something wrong (Airworthy Issue) that he would have to fix it before he
could fly it again and he did not have the money to do that if I did not
buy
the airplane. If I cannot make my own decisions mabye I should let him
talk
to the woman of the house and let her make it. I said sorry and
immediately
hung up the phone!

This guy had the nerve to call me back telling me that I was rude for
hanging up on him and if you cannot tell what a good deal is with your own
eyes then I you will never own a airplane. I hung up on him and entered
his
phone # in to my call rejection.

Yes the deal seemed like a good deal almost to good to be true 1976 172
8,000TT 700 SFRM $28,000 Firm his log books and AD lists were the best I
have seen to date very organized Annual was due at the end of the month.
No
telling what problems this guy was trying to hide with this airplane.

What is with some of these people they seem worse then car dealers.

Here is funny one read below first thing that tripped mu bull****
indicator
was when he said "I cannot recall" well if they have compleate logs it
should be a simple yes or no answer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-------------------------------------------------------

The airframe book refers to a 337 but we do not have it. I could get a
copy
from the feds in Ok City, but would take a little while. Do you want one?

Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "MRQB"
To: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:57 AM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Do you have a 337 on that repair.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
To: "TAC"
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Logs indicate firewall repair in 1982. Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "TAC"
To: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


March 05, 1982 can you look that up in the logs for me.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Forgot to tell you... all logs, I cannot recall any major damage.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trade-A-Plane Web Site"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


A Trade-A-Plane web user wishes to inquire about your ad.

This message is from:

Please send all the spec's thank you.

Dose it have all the logs and is there any damage history?

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:32:22 GMT, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

It's kind of funny. I've owned three airplanes in the last twenty
years...and didn't get a pre-buy inspection on any of 'em.

Me too. With the T-cart and the Stinson. Never even got a check-out,
though the gal who sold me the Taylorcraft showed me the right way to
hand-prop her.

Complicated airplanes you can't afford to make a mistake on, it's
probably a different story.

Don

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Is it just me or is the whole aviation industry like this I have not found

I find that attitude in nearly every market anymore. That attitude and the
"convenient" billing error.

It used to be that they'd nickel and dime you; now they $10, $20, $50 you to
death.

In this week alone, my wifes cell phone company (T-Mobile) tried to charge
her for 315 text messages at 15 cents each, even though she never signed up
for it, plus most messages were "sent" while she was at work with the phone
was in her purse, turned off. They said they couldn't figure out how it
happened, so they would not revoke the charge.

Next, I find our car insurance company is trying to charge us for "roadside"
assiatance, though we told them we don't want the service. The were pleasant
about recinding the charge, but I wonder how many just hope non one notices.

Thats the same way i feel. "some people just don't want my money"

"SD" sdatverizondot.net@ wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:17:11 -0800, "MRQB" wrote:


Is it just me or is the whole aviation industry like this I have not
found 1
airplane yet that some one was not hiding something or trying to hide.

I don't think it is just the aviation industry, I think it is a new
mentality that we are seeing. About 4 weeks ago I put a contract on a
house for almost a half million dollars. I made arrangements for the
next week to have the house inspected, scheduled it with the owners
and real-estate people. We all agreed on what day/time to meet. Well
we all got there and the owner refused to let our inspector do
anything. He wasn't allowed to flip a light switch, move curtains to
check outlets.... NOTHING. I looked at my realtor and told her to
terminate the contract right then. The next day the owner's realtor
called and asked if we could try again. I laid down my terms and told
him that I also wanted a structural engineer to look at the property
and gave him the engineers' available schedule. He called back and
told me the owner would only allow him to come look at the house on X
day which happened to be one of the 2 days the engineer was not
available that whole week. I told him that was not acceptable and
that there will be no further negotiations and the deal was off.

I guess some people just don't want my money!!! Odd.

Scott

His explanation for the missing two years was he did not fly it could not
afford to. The tach times and Hobbs times were consistent with the 2 year
skip after last annual. Prior to the skip it looked like the airplane was
flown like 30 somthing hours then the logs stop. No logs entrys for 2 years
(no pages missing) tach and Hobbs time resume at an annual 2 years later at
arround 30 hours from the last annual with a little list of minor repairs
like nose gear strut seal, breaks, tires ect.



"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:5lz1c.13002$id3.936@fed1read01...
he's got something to hide... walking away is always the best thing

just tell him flat out.. no.. you are not interested..

there is a plane out there for you.. and an honest seller.. who
understands
the issue of a "pre buy"

what was the explanation for the missing two years?

BT

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I
just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my
self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Is it just me or is the whole aviation industry like this I have not
found
1
airplane yet that some one was not hiding something or trying to hide.
This
last airplane that I looked at was great kinda sounded to good to be
true,
seller lost job and needed money the logs looked like they were in order
had
2 missing years but had a good explanation and a NTSB search showed no
accident history. I told him that id have an A&P come over tomorrow and
do
a
pre buy and review his logs again. He said no you can have my mechanic
do
your pre buy as no inspection plates are coming off with out my mechanic
taking them off. I told him that you can have your mechanic do all the
wrenching but I need my mechanic look it over before I buy. He refused
to
let me do a pre buy so I walked away and went home.

He called me up later in the evening and said to tell him now if I
wanted
it
or not and real persistent that I give him an answer right now, I told
him
that I am really interested and as I told him earlier today I need to do
a
pre buy first before I can make that decision. He said flat out no pre
buy
from an independent A&P and his reasoning were that an independent A & P
did
not know his airplane "Cessna 172" and if the independent A & P found
something wrong (Airworthy Issue) that he would have to fix it before he
could fly it again and he did not have the money to do that if I did not
buy
the airplane. If I cannot make my own decisions mabye I should let him
talk
to the woman of the house and let her make it. I said sorry and
immediately
hung up the phone!

This guy had the nerve to call me back telling me that I was rude for
hanging up on him and if you cannot tell what a good deal is with your
own
eyes then I you will never own a airplane. I hung up on him and entered
his
phone # in to my call rejection.

Yes the deal seemed like a good deal almost to good to be true 1976 172
8,000TT 700 SFRM $28,000 Firm his log books and AD lists were the best I
have seen to date very organized Annual was due at the end of the month.
No
telling what problems this guy was trying to hide with this airplane.

What is with some of these people they seem worse then car dealers.

Here is funny one read below first thing that tripped mu bull****
indicator
was when he said "I cannot recall" well if they have compleate logs it
should be a simple yes or no answer.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-------------------------------------------------------

The airframe book refers to a 337 but we do not have it. I could get a
copy
from the feds in Ok City, but would take a little while. Do you want
one?

Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "MRQB"
To: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:57 AM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Do you have a 337 on that repair.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
To: "TAC"
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Logs indicate firewall repair in 1982. Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "TAC"
To: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


March 05, 1982 can you look that up in the logs for me.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Forgot to tell you... all logs, I cannot recall any major
damage.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trade-A-Plane Web Site"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


A Trade-A-Plane web user wishes to inquire about your ad.

This message is from:

Please send all the spec's thank you.

Dose it have all the logs and is there any damage history?

WTF? That's not missing logs! Makes me think there something else to
this story that you're not telling. Was your mechanic a real A&P or
some schmuck that works on his own plane? If that's the case, I'd
tell YOU to pound salt, too!

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:08:44 -0800, "MRQB" wrote:

His explanation for the missing two years was he did not fly it could not
afford to. The tach times and Hobbs times were consistent with the 2 year
skip after last annual. Prior to the skip it looked like the airplane was
flown like 30 somthing hours then the logs stop. No logs entrys for 2 years
(no pages missing) tach and Hobbs time resume at an annual 2 years later at
arround 30 hours from the last annual with a little list of minor repairs
like nose gear strut seal, breaks, tires ect.

Yes he is a real A & P, IA and is the only one I trust out of a handful that
I have meet and interviewed around here.


"Stu Gotts" wrote in message
...
WTF? That's not missing logs! Makes me think there something else to
this story that you're not telling. Was your mechanic a real A&P or
some schmuck that works on his own plane? If that's the case, I'd
tell YOU to pound salt, too!

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:08:44 -0800, "MRQB" wrote:

His explanation for the missing two years was he did not fly it could not
afford to. The tach times and Hobbs times were consistent with the 2 year
skip after last annual. Prior to the skip it looked like the airplane was
flown like 30 somthing hours then the logs stop. No logs entrys for 2
years
(no pages missing) tach and Hobbs time resume at an annual 2 years later
at
arround 30 hours from the last annual with a little list of minor repairs
like nose gear strut seal, breaks, tires ect.

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:48:48 -0800, MRQB wrote:

Yes he is a real A & P, IA and is the only one I trust out of a handful that
I have meet and interviewed around here.

If he told you that because the plane did not fly for 2 years and that's
why it had missing logs he's daft, find another A&P. That's most
definitely not missing logs. A plane can have years where there's lot of
work logged, others when it's mostly oil changes and an annual, and if
they don't fly it and don't get an annual then nothing gets logged, but
the amount of entries does not determine if it's missing. Now if you saw
that the pages were gone, the tach numbers don't add up, that's more
likely to be missing logs.

Now, it's still debatable as to whether the plane should have been
purchased without it's flying in 2 years, often you'll find problems
cropping up due to the inactivity and hidden corrosion. You were probably
better off passing on it anyhow.

How about a side discussion about which are the worst

Arrogant Sellers
or
Tire Kicking Buyers.

I've been on both sides a few times, and BOY there are some LULU's out
there!

Rich

Jay Honeck wrote:

I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust

my

mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be

an

airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.


Yeah, I've run into a couple of sellers who didn't want my mechanic looking
at their planes.

I immediately assumed they were hiding something, and told 'em to pound
salt. But don't worry -- they are probably hiding something anyway, so
you've lost nothing by walking away.

IMHO, anyone who buys from someone like this is an idiot, and deserves to be
parted from his or her money. Caveat emptor.