Philosophical question on owning & IFR rating

I'm a 160-hour PPL and a club member. My club is great and economical,
but availability and flexibility are becoming big drawbacks, so I'm
toying with the idea of buying a plane.

It's hard to justify on strictly financial terms because the club is
such a good deal, but how many times can you schedule a plane for a
Saturday flight, have to reschedule for Sunday because of wx but whoops,
can't because all the planes are booked for Sunday. Or even schedule a
morning flight, but because of AM fog have to postpone a couple of
hours, but still have to be back by noon because someone else has it
right after you, so you might as well not go since the fog didn't lift
till 11:00. Etc.

So I've been thinking of buying a plane for the sole purpose of
improving my availability & flexibility. Other than that I am delighed
with the club. Because of my job and other responsibilities, if I'm
going to do a significant amount of flying I'm going to need
availability and flexibility without having to plan everyhing way ahead.
Also because of that, and also because of reluctance to get into bed
financially with others, I don't think a partnership is the way to go,
though I haven't ruled it out, but for argument's sake let's say it's
ruled out.

Since this is a philosophical discussion, assume if I buy on my own I
will have to buy a VFR airplane to get a decent one that's affordable.
If I buy a VFR airplane that would rule out getting an instrument rating
because I'm obviously not going to rent airplanes for over 40 hours of
IFR training if I just bought one.

I keep putting off starting my IFR training, so while I think it would
be good to do it's clearly not something I'm burning to do.
Availability and flexiblity has something to do with putting off the IFR
training too, it took me 2 years and 80 hours to get my PPL because of
those kinds of issues and I don't want to repeat that with an IFR rating.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on having the hypothetical choice of
getting an IFR rating while continuing to rent, versus buying and
committing to being VFR-only for the forseeable future. I'm in North
Carolina, where the weather is VFR reasonably often but not so often
that it's a no-brainer like it would be in AZ or FL or some such place.

TIA

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on having the hypothetical choice of
getting an IFR rating while continuing to rent, versus buying and
committing to being VFR-only for the forseeable future. I'm in North
Carolina, where the weather is VFR reasonably often but not so often
that it's a no-brainer like it would be in AZ or FL or some such place.

Why limit your choices?

Personally, I'd buy an IFR-certified plane, with the eventual intent of
getting the instrument rating. I've done that twice, now, although I
still haven't finished up the instrument rating. I have done a fair amount
of instrument training in both planes, however -- something that would not
be possible if it were a VFR-only plane.

With an IFR platform to fly it's nice to know that I COULD get down through
the clouds, if needed. It wouldn't be legal, but at least it would
possible.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Since this is a philosophical discussion, assume if I buy on my own I
will have to buy a VFR airplane to get a decent one that's affordable.
If I buy a VFR airplane that would rule out getting an instrument rating

My advise is to purchase an IFR aircraft.
Even if you never get the rating, it is safer and easier to sell.
My aircaft and I are IFR rated.
Hank N1441P

Jay Honeck wrote:

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on having the hypothetical choice of
getting an IFR rating while continuing to rent, versus buying and
committing to being VFR-only for the forseeable future. I'm in North
Carolina, where the weather is VFR reasonably often but not so often
that it's a no-brainer like it would be in AZ or FL or some such place.


Why limit your choices?

Cost. For example, you can get some pretty cherry VFR-only Cherokee
140's in the 20's. To get an IFR 140 in the same condition you're
looking at high 30's. At least that's what I've concluded from my
research.

My cost point may be lower than you would expect simply because my club
is such a good deal the cost has to be pretty low to justify owning IMO.

Hankal wrote:

Since this is a philosophical discussion, assume if I buy on my own I
will have to buy a VFR airplane to get a decent one that's affordable.
If I buy a VFR airplane that would rule out getting an instrument rating


My advise is to purchase an IFR aircraft.
Even if you never get the rating, it is safer and easier to sell.
My aircaft and I are IFR rated.
Hank N1441P

I agree that's best but this is a philosophical hypothetical question.
For argument's sake I've limited the choices to only two -- buy VFR
airplane OR get instrument rated. My own situation isn't really that
simple but it's a philosophical discussion.

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on having the hypothetical choice of
getting an IFR rating while continuing to rent, versus buying and
committing to being VFR-only for the forseeable future. I'm in North
Carolina, where the weather is VFR reasonably often but not so often
that it's a no-brainer like it would be in AZ or FL or some such place.


I would recommend getting yourself an instrument rating first... before
buying an airplane. An IFR capable airplane is not going to be cheap
but you need to know what your mission will inevitably be and what you
REALLY want in an IFR platform. The knowledge and experience in having
the rating with make you a more educated buyer of an airplane wherether
you realize it or not.

There is also something to be said for earning an instrument rating
while flying a number of differently equipped rental aircraft. During
my instrument training I flew pipers and Cessnas equipped with everything
from ancient KX-170's to Garmin 430's and everything in between. That
is good experience and helped me understand what is important to have
in a instrument platform.

Just my $.02

All you need to turn that VFR Cherokee 140 into an IFR plane is a $200
Pitot/Static and transponder check.
You'll be limited to the type of approaches depending on the equipment but
you can absolutely start training for your Instrument. I purchased a 1978
Warrior before I finished my private and subsequently got my instrument
rating.

Marco

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on having the hypothetical choice of
getting an IFR rating while continuing to rent, versus buying and
committing to being VFR-only for the forseeable future. I'm in North
Carolina, where the weather is VFR reasonably often but not so often
that it's a no-brainer like it would be in AZ or FL or some such place.


Why limit your choices?

Cost. For example, you can get some pretty cherry VFR-only Cherokee
140's in the 20's. To get an IFR 140 in the same condition you're
looking at high 30's. At least that's what I've concluded from my
research.

My cost point may be lower than you would expect simply because my club
is such a good deal the cost has to be pretty low to justify owning IMO.

You're starting from the wrong point. Don't start with "what kind of
airplane do I want". Start with "what kind of flying do I want to do". If
I'm a day VFR pilot only, fly airplanes that are older than my Dad, have no
electrics and minimal instrumentation, have been all over France and the UK
and have a blast doing it. Decide what you want to do with your flying and
that will tell you what kind of airplane and whether to do your IFR ticket
or not. Are you happy to fly slow, or just tool around in the sky for the
sake of flying, or do you want to use it to go places and as a means of
travel? Do you want to be able to cruise at 150 kts or is 100 OK?

Once you decide what kind of flying you want to do, then you can decide what
kind of airplane you want. I want to fly aerobatics so I got myself a
Pitts. No "systems", no lights, no gyros, pure day VFR - and I love every
minute of it. But, I can't take a mate to France for lunch in it.
Sometimes it's limiting but I don't value going places enough to part with
the kind of cash that requires. And don't underestimate that factor. A
Taylorcraft is a lot cheaper to buy, own, and operate than something that's
fully IFR certified or fast.

Hopefully that helps a bit.

Shawn


"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote in message
...
I'm a 160-hour PPL and a club member. My club is great and economical,
but availability and flexibility are becoming big drawbacks, so I'm
toying with the idea of buying a plane.

It's hard to justify on strictly financial terms because the club is
such a good deal, but how many times can you schedule a plane for a
Saturday flight, have to reschedule for Sunday because of wx but whoops,
can't because all the planes are booked for Sunday. Or even schedule a
morning flight, but because of AM fog have to postpone a couple of
hours, but still have to be back by noon because someone else has it
right after you, so you might as well not go since the fog didn't lift
till 11:00. Etc.

So I've been thinking of buying a plane for the sole purpose of
improving my availability & flexibility. Other than that I am delighed
with the club. Because of my job and other responsibilities, if I'm
going to do a significant amount of flying I'm going to need
availability and flexibility without having to plan everyhing way ahead.
Also because of that, and also because of reluctance to get into bed
financially with others, I don't think a partnership is the way to go,
though I haven't ruled it out, but for argument's sake let's say it's
ruled out.

Since this is a philosophical discussion, assume if I buy on my own I
will have to buy a VFR airplane to get a decent one that's affordable.
If I buy a VFR airplane that would rule out getting an instrument rating
because I'm obviously not going to rent airplanes for over 40 hours of
IFR training if I just bought one.

I keep putting off starting my IFR training, so while I think it would
be good to do it's clearly not something I'm burning to do.
Availability and flexiblity has something to do with putting off the IFR
training too, it took me 2 years and 80 hours to get my PPL because of
those kinds of issues and I don't want to repeat that with an IFR rating.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on having the hypothetical choice of
getting an IFR rating while continuing to rent, versus buying and
committing to being VFR-only for the forseeable future. I'm in North
Carolina, where the weather is VFR reasonably often but not so often
that it's a no-brainer like it would be in AZ or FL or some such place.

TIA

One other thing that I should have mentioned in my previous post:
The savings in lower insurance rates you will experience by having
the instrument rating will come close to paying for the cost of
the rating itself.

With respect to the weather conditions in North Carolina...
that doesn't matter much for IR training... in fact you will have
the opportunity for more "actual" hours which will benefit you
in the long run. Weather isn't as much of an impediment for an
IR rating as it is for a PPL rating.

In article ,
TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:
So I've been thinking of buying a plane for the sole purpose of
improving my availability & flexibility.

I think of ownership and my IFR rating as both giving me flexibility in
scheduling. Here's an example:

Last week we decided on Monday night that we'd like to go to Canada for
a 3 day weekend. Renting an airplane for 3 days on such short notice
would have probably been impossible. Heck, it was short notice just to
get up-to-date Canadian charts!

On the other hand, while we arrived in beautiful weather, a storm front
moved through on Saturday (while we were in a museum and left multiple
layers of scattered to overcast clouds all along the route of my return
flight. I was able to file, get on top without even penetrating a cloud
and descend through the overcast at home. Could I have gotten home VFR?
Yes, based on what I observed enroute. It sure wasn't clear from the
weather briefing. I probably would have gone underneath, and that would
have meant a low overwater leg.

As a VFR pilot I would have spent most of my last day (or the next day,
having stayed another night) obsessing over the return flight -- probably
at the airport, so I'd be ready to take advantage of a window of
opportunity. At least as a VFR-only owner there wouldn't be a club or
FBO pestering you to return the plane.

Since this is a philosophical discussion, assume if I buy on my own I
will have to buy a VFR airplane to get a decent one that's affordable.

I think this part of your question is a false dilemma. "IFR capable"
is not a yes/no attribute. It's a continuum from aircraft with no
electrical system or gyro instruments to transport jets with redundant
FMS computers. In any airplane you're likely to buy, a VOR w/glideslope
can be installed for a few thousand dollars and the pitot/static check
can be done for a few hundred. Peanuts compared to the annual cost of
ownership.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/