EU as joke (modified)

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, BUFDRVR
blurted out:

I already spelled that out for you. Possible chemical and biological weapons

**Possible** but, to date no "smoking gun" except for evidence of
plans. Compelling enough for US citizens...a plurality at least, but
not the same as Adlai Stevenson showing pictures of russian missiles
in Cuba.

and ties to international terrorists.

And while this situation is indeed different, for the sake of debate,
one could easily "connect the dots" with Mr Rumsfeld having had "ties"
to Saddam Hussein's regime. One can make an easy connection between
previous US administrations and supplying weapons to the Taliban back
in the day when the DRCPBs were still the major threat to world peace.

It was a combination we could not allow to continue and since
it was apparent the UN, nor anyone else was going to do
anything about it, we did.

Except for universal agreement that Saddam Hussein was/is a brutal SOB
and worthless human being, perhaps other avenues could have been
attempted...say like US actions vs Maummar Qaddafi back in the 80s, ie
specific targeting trying to decapitate Huusein & sons (short of
invading).

You quote perhaps one of the most corrupt Presidents the US had in the 20th
Century. Vietnam, Berlin, Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis, oh yeah
that JFK he was a saint. LOL.

Oh my...please JFK beats GWB in style, grace, integrity, combat
experience, combat wounds, education...and getting laid by the
contemporary sex goddess.

Vietnam was inherited from Eisenhower (yep DDE personally briefed JFK
that containment of communism in asia was predicated on stopping them
in Laos...yeah the war we didn't really fight), wasted effort. BTW
containment was plan of the day vs International Monolithic
(according to US experts) Communism. Enough blame to share with many
US Presidents

Berlin was extremely WELL handled and precipitated by Nikita closing
off access to Berlin (but you knew that).

BoP another inherited to plan and policy. Should have cancelled it but
trusted others.

Cuban Missile Crisis, wow big brass cajones.

The existance of the UN has not benifited US national security to a significant
enough degree for most Americans to really care for the organization.

To be fair, do you really think the UN exists for our security? Of
course you don't, it exists for everyones. There is absolutely ZERO
reason to expect the UN to rubber stamp everything any US president
wants to do.

Negative. Just my opinion, but I believe if the UN fails to assist in Iraq,
that public opinion will turn to the point of forcing the US to withdraw
*slowly* from the UN. As far as most Americans are concerned, the UN is at
best an irrelevent organization, at worst its an anti-US organization.

Hey we're all fickle. When the UN goes along with GWB everything is
copacetic. If UN segments (majority) are against us, the UN is
instantly irrelevant. Perhaps we should ask ourselves why don't they
agree with our actions.

The US is now spending way too much on TSA and screening for "bombs"
at high school football games in Iowa, but heck many of our citizens
think it's OK. I resent TSA screening when I go to work just to make
some paying customer feel like our government is actually doing
something productive on the home front. The costs both in money and
personal freedom don't justify the "benefit" IMO.

YMMV

juvat

In article , "tadaa" wrote:

If you expect a ground war, building ships would be kinda stupid.

....with 2/3 of the Earth's surface being under water, expecting *only* a
"ground war' is a good way to get into trouble for most countries...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

The European press was not attacking Bush for not being good at
public relations, it was much more personal.

I think you should expect that when you start pointing the finger
at someone. It provokes.

Can you explain how Presidential candidate Bush provoked Europe? Was
it his unappologetic "America first" theme?

I'm talking about the Iraqi buildup.

Why is this never
acceptable for the United States, but completely acceptable for
European nations to put themselves first?

We do? On the 20th of september the UN general assembly voted
overwhelmingly 133 to 4 to tell Israel to drop its threat to
harm or deport Yasser Arafat. The US voted no, along with Israel
and later the US vetoed it in the UN security council. It was
no less than the 26th US veto of a Mideast resolution in the council.

European countries tend to respect UN resolutions. The United States
goes to war with any country seen as a perceived threat, misleads
its allies, ignores the international community and displays an
absolute disrespect for international agreements and coorperation.

It's not hard to find the reasons for the worlds oposition against
the americans, if one cares to look.




Regards...

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

I have
traveled to over 60 countries, and I was never is a position
where English could not be used.

Most of the world don't speak english. You wouldn't get far in
most of the asian, hispanic, african and the former soviet
world without some knowledge of the local tounge. You certainly
wouldn't be able to take part in the culture and lives of
the society there.

You will even have trouble in some european countries unless
you stick to the tourist areas or are lucky enough to bump into
the better educated ones.


Point is, unless you've lived and spoken another language and
experienced another culture from the inside, you are in a very
weak position to claim anything much that goes beyond yourself.
Most people know that and naturally keep an open mind at things.


To keep your record at 100%, avoid a very nice resturant on "the
square" in Mons Belgium. The name escapes me at the moment, but if
not for my "pigeon German" I don't think I could have understood
enough to order there. Interestingly enough, the waiter didn't speak
German too well either and I've no clue about Flemish or French. Was
good food though....

Well most americans I speak to are embarrased on behalf of their
own nation for speaking just one language and lack of cultural insight.
In particular they tell me the illiteracy and poor language skills
of the generation growing up today is worrying.


Regards...

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...

In order to clarify my remarks, when I say "europe" I mean "old europe"
France, Germany Belgium, The Netherlands, Greece, Italy, etc. I do not
include the UK, Poland or the other former east block countries.

Hmm.. Italy came into existence post-1848 and Germany isn't much older-
just how are they "old Europe" when the older nations of Europe are not
included in this classification? You do realise that Italy supported the US
action in Iraq don't you? YOU do also realise that it is only the British
*government* , not the British people who supported the war in Iraq?

You seem consumed by either hate, prejudice or jealousy Minyard. I did get a
kick out of your assertion that "Americans aren't colonists (thieves)"
comment a while back which proves that Americans CAN do irony after all.

Anyway, have a pleasant rant, catch you later on down the trail.

If you expect a ground war, building ships would be kinda stupid.

...with 2/3 of the Earth's surface being under water, expecting *only* a
"ground war' is a good way to get into trouble for most countries...

Well it seems that USA with it's navy is quite capable of getting into
trouble . Quite frankly i don't see a point of maintaining a strong navy
if you are preparing to fight off horde of tanks. How large navy should
Austria have? Or Swiss? Or from those countries that have shoreline Finland
or Sweden? Those large ships would just have been targets in the Baltic.
The point is that USA needs to have a navy to be able to project force, but
the Europeans were preparing for a war in Europe so they didn't need that
strong navy.

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:47:03 GMT, "Gord Beaman" ) wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote:


Europe is irrelevant. We could care less what supposed
"reasons" you have.

Do not, rpt not, get in our way.

Al Minyard


You come across as one arrogant SOB sir, you admire school
bullies too do you?.

No, actually I was on the receiving end of that bully business. I
am sorry if I come across as arrogant, but I am sick and
tired of countries that not only refuse to help in the war
on terrorism, and actually try to block our efforts. Then
they want to jump in and steal what we are trying to build.

End of thread

Al Minyard

On 06 Nov 2003 02:48:15 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

I have
traveled to over 60 countries, and I was never is a position
where English could not be used.

To keep your record at 100%, avoid a very nice resturant on "the square" in
Mons Belgium. The name escapes me at the moment, but if not for my "pigeon
German" I don't think I could have understood enough to order there.
Interestingly enough, the waiter didn't speak German too well either and I've
no clue about Flemish or French. Was good food though....


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"


Yes, some times it is inconvenient, but if I really needed something I could
always find someone who spoke english. In restaurants I sometimes
just point at something on the menu, I learned a lot about dishes that
I would otherwise never have ordered.

Al Minyard

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:01:01 GMT, "Bjørnar" wrote:

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

I have
traveled to over 60 countries, and I was never is a position
where English could not be used.

Most of the world don't speak english. You wouldn't get far in
most of the asian, hispanic, african and the former soviet
world without some knowledge of the local tounge. You certainly
wouldn't be able to take part in the culture and lives of
the society there.

You will even have trouble in some european countries unless
you stick to the tourist areas or are lucky enough to bump into
the better educated ones.


Point is, unless you've lived and spoken another language and
experienced another culture from the inside, you are in a very
weak position to claim anything much that goes beyond yourself.
Most people know that and naturally keep an open mind at things.


To keep your record at 100%, avoid a very nice resturant on "the
square" in Mons Belgium. The name escapes me at the moment, but if
not for my "pigeon German" I don't think I could have understood
enough to order there. Interestingly enough, the waiter didn't speak
German too well either and I've no clue about Flemish or French. Was
good food though....

Well most americans I speak to are embarrased on behalf of their
own nation for speaking just one language and lack of cultural insight.
In particular they tell me the illiteracy and poor language skills
of the generation growing up today is worrying.


Regards...

Idiot

PLONK

Al Minyard

"tw" writes:
You seem consumed by either hate, prejudice or jealousy Minyard. I did get a
kick out of your assertion that "Americans aren't colonists (thieves)"
comment a while back which proves that Americans CAN do irony after all.

It probably wasn't irony though, just ignorance.

/Tomas