ILS sans identification

ArtP wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:59:55 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:


The GNS-480 decodes it for you and displays the letter
code. I can't see any possible failure mode where the display would be
wrong but I would be able to correct it by listening myself.

Does it actually decode it or just display to info from its database.

It decodes it. The SL30 doesn't even have a database.

Jim Macklin wrote:
The FAA removes the ID when the radio facility is out of
tolerance and "not in service" even though there may be a
signal being broadcast [maybe part of testing or trouble
shooting/repair] so it is my practice to have the audio on
at low volume. The monitoring decoding by the hardware is
very nice.
The TEST case brings to mind an amusing story. I was in the
backseat while my wife and her instructor were flying around
trying to track the EMI VOR. They had the IDENT volume up
so I could hear it sending. I finally had pity on them
and let them know it was sending TEST. Shame on Margy, she's
a HAM radio operator from the days when she had to copy CW
at more than twice the rate the VOR sends to get her license.

Ron Natalie wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:

The FAA removes the ID when the radio facility is out of tolerance and
"not in service" even though there may be a signal being broadcast
[maybe part of testing or trouble shooting/repair] so it is my
practice to have the audio on at low volume. The monitoring decoding
by the hardware is very nice.

The TEST case brings to mind an amusing story. I was in the
backseat while my wife and her instructor were flying around
trying to track the EMI VOR. They had the IDENT volume up
so I could hear it sending. I finally had pity on them
and let them know it was sending TEST. Shame on Margy, she's
a HAM radio operator from the days when she had to copy CW
at more than twice the rate the VOR sends to get her license.

But just that's the problem - the ID's are so slow that
the thoughts slip to something else before decoding the code.

When you're really good with Morse, the slow speeds with
proper spacing start to be difficult to listen to.

--

Tauno Voipio (CPL(a), also OH2UG)
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

The Instrument rating PTS in section VI.B - (Precision approaches)
says:

"9. Selects, tunes, identifies, and monitors the operational status of
ground and airplane navigation equipment used for the approach."

So at least on checkrides you have a reference...

Ed

In article . com,
wrote:

The Instrument rating PTS in section VI.B - (Precision approaches)
says:

"9. Selects, tunes, identifies, and monitors the operational status of
ground and airplane navigation equipment used for the approach."

So at least on checkrides you have a reference...

Ed

But, it doesn't say anything about listening to the morse code. Reading
"IHPN" on the front panel of the radio counts as "identifies" in my book.

On 03/07/07 17:46, Roy Smith wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

The Instrument rating PTS in section VI.B - (Precision approaches)
says:

"9. Selects, tunes, identifies, and monitors the operational status of
ground and airplane navigation equipment used for the approach."

So at least on checkrides you have a reference...

Ed

But, it doesn't say anything about listening to the morse code. Reading
"IHPN" on the front panel of the radio counts as "identifies" in my book.

Yes. It seems about half the people on this thread thought the question
was whether or not you needed to identify the station, and not do you
need to identify by listening to the morse code, or can you just read
the station ID on the avionics gear.

On Mar 7, 5:51 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:



Yes. It seems about half the people on this thread thought the question
was whether or not you needed to identify the station, and not do you
need to identify by listening to the morse code, or can you just read
the station ID on the avionics gear.

"Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an ils or vor
prior to it's use in the USA?
Secondly, is there any reference to the type of identification
required? For example, would checking that the primary flight display
is displaying the correct identifier suffice? Or is there a
stipulation for morse code audible type of identification?

Stan"

Perhaps because both questions were asked.

Stan

It's the same for doing a VOR approach, do you keep the NAV button on
with the ident turned to an unobtrusive level while you are shooting the
approach? If the Morse code goes away it's a clue that the navaid my be
unreliable. Same thing for the ILS.

As for identifying PRIOR to use, that's a no brainer. It will get you
in trouble in an instrument ride if you DON'T identify a navaid when you
want to use it.

wrote:
On Mar 7, 5:51 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:



Yes. It seems about half the people on this thread thought the question
was whether or not you needed to identify the station, and not do you
need to identify by listening to the morse code, or can you just read
the station ID on the avionics gear.


"Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an ils or vor
prior to it's use in the USA?
Secondly, is there any reference to the type of identification
required? For example, would checking that the primary flight display
is displaying the correct identifier suffice? Or is there a
stipulation for morse code audible type of identification?

Stan"

Perhaps because both questions were asked.

Stan

On 03/09/07 10:27, Robert Chambers wrote:
It's the same for doing a VOR approach, do you keep the NAV button on
with the ident turned to an unobtrusive level while you are shooting the
approach? If the Morse code goes away it's a clue that the navaid my be
unreliable. Same thing for the ILS.

Well, I was told to use all my nav equipment. So, I've got both VORs tuned
in, as well as the ADF, etc. That's a lot of morse code going on in the
cockpit during the approach.

As far at the VORs and LOCs go, the identification was to make sure you've
got the correct station. The absense of the flags are supposed to tell you
that it is still working.


As for identifying PRIOR to use, that's a no brainer. It will get you
in trouble in an instrument ride if you DON'T identify a navaid when you
want to use it.

Not to mention the problem you can have if you accidentally get the wrong
station ;-\


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On Mar 5, 12:25 am, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
The FAA removes the ID when the radio facility is out of
tolerance and "not in service"

Perhaps the FAA does.

Here is a fun video of an aborted landing in Apia Samoa.

This video describes the post analysis of an avoided accident.

Apparently, there is a maintenance mode (control monitor bypass mode)
of an ILS glide slope transmitter.

In this mode, any GS receiver tuned to that ILS will immediately
conclude an on-glide slope condition. Regardless of position!

The ident, of course, only indicates a functioning localizer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GelRBhJ4gmI

ak.