TOW PLANE Accident

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:24:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 4:03:11 PM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 1:27:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).



I found the report to be clear and well written. This is one of the few NTSB glider accident reports in which most of us can read the report and know with high confidence what went wrong.

Your suggestion that it is probably the passenger's comment about looking away is just wacky when the opening sentence to that paragraph makes perfectly clear that it is comment from the pilot that is being reported.

Making judgements about accidents within the soaring community is critically important so that we have steerage for fixing things that aren't going well. This business of kiting on tow is one of those things that very much needs attention because it is killing people. Suggesting that we all put our head in the sand and proclaim that we don't know for sure is asinine. When a fatal accident happens we all need to learn from that event whatever it is that needs to be learned.

"Suggesting that we all put our head in the sand and proclaim that we don't know for sure is asinine." Brilliant and useful comment, personal attacks usually are. Kind of my point about this thread, so much of it is useless crap. IMO we haven't learned much about "When a fatal accident happens we all need to learn from that event whatever it is that needs to be learned" from this thread. For the most part, just a bunch of people spouting off emotionally. Fine if you see it differently, but nothing I've read in this thread is going to stop the next accident.
Anyway, we could also wait for someone who knows. Anyone who has looked at the video knows. Perhaps we tone it down so that someone feels like they can make a comment without getting flamed.

The problem with your comments and your point of view is that there are in fact very important takeaways from this accident and from the discussion of the accident. I think it is quite possible that the discussion here that emphasises the importance of glider pilot vigilance and avoiding all distractions during the first 600 feet of tow has the potential to critically influence someone that might otherwise be tempted to fiddle with his computer when he needs to focus on the towplane. It's possible that the discussion here will cause some operations to increase the length of the towrope which may have the potential to save a tuggies life one day. Then there is the discussion regarding the tow release problems that might ultimately save lives if the release hardware gets improved. There is also a worthy discussion as to whether we might make life safer for tow pilots if we primarily trained low tow (that one is not obvious, but needs consideration).

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:47:15 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 3:38:19 PM UTC-5, Mike C wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).


"Video Study
The glider flight instructor recorded two videos on a GoPro Hero 5 video camera that included most of the flight. Although the videos did not capture the tow plane's ground impact, they captured portions of the tow plane's flight just before impact. Copies of the videos were forwarded to the National Transportation Safety Board Vehicle Recorders Laboratory, Washington, DC, for further examination."

Yes, I read that, and I alluded to that portion in my comment. What is your point? What conclusion did you draw from that part of the report?

I do not want to enter into a samsaric discourse, but I think you have misinterpreted the report and that the camera was controlled by the sailplane pilot. The tow plane pilot could have had an unrelated problem at the same time, which is possible. I also think that most of us recognized what seemed obvious because we have all had our seconds of inattention on tow and know how quickly one can get out of position. Last year I adjusted my radio and in an instant was way out of position. I learned a lesson and will not take my attention off the tow plane.

Mike

The son of the tow pilot in this accident posted on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gliding/com...e_immediately/

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 9:48:10 AM UTC-4, wrote:

Your comments indicate to me that you are not or never have been a tow pilot. Am I right?

I'm a tow pilot of modest experience (+/-500 tows, my club prefers me in the back seat of a glider on days I work).

Nothing else to add at this time.

T8

I had a power failure once while towing my wife as a student in a Grob.Â*
She told me I went down sharply so she released and turned back.

On 3/10/2019 3:15 PM, wrote:
Could instant total power failure lead to a kiting incident? Tug starts down immediately glider goes up. Not saying that is what happened here just wondering about the possibility. Anyone had a full instantaneous power failure on tow?

--
Dan, 5J

Though the final report w/any probable cause is scheduled for this Wednesday (3/13), there are a few details that perplex me. Video analysis (segment #2)indicates the spoiler handle starts to move aft at (in seconds?) 5.14s, then is near full aft by 9.21s until 11.13s when it "starts to move forward". Near the end of the epoch, the release handle moves several inches, then dangles, coincident with a snapping sound. The glider PIC reported deploying brakes when he saw the towplane below to the right with slack in the line. He stated,"and the[n] released the towrope." Partial to full brake handle aft for about 6 seconds, most while tug/glider still connected it seems (tho maybe wrong). Witnesses told the PIC they didn't think he pulled the tug's tail up; some of the written docs bear this out. Video stills recorded the tug's elevator position.

The post by Ouroboros was enlightening.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gliding/com...e_immediately/

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 5:01:48 PM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
Though the final report w/any probable cause is scheduled for this Wednesday (3/13), there are a few details that perplex me. Video analysis (segment #2)indicates the spoiler handle starts to move aft at (in seconds?) 5.14s, then is near full aft by 9.21s until 11.13s when it "starts to move forward". Near the end of the epoch, the release handle moves several inches, then dangles, coincident with a snapping sound. The glider PIC reported deploying brakes when he saw the towplane below to the right with slack in the line. He stated,"and the[n] released the towrope." Partial to full brake handle aft for about 6 seconds, most while tug/glider still connected it seems (tho maybe wrong). Witnesses told the PIC they didn't think he pulled the tug's tail up; some of the written docs bear this out. Video stills recorded the tug's elevator position.

The post by Ouroboros was enlightening.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gliding/com...e_immediately/

Where are you able to see the video footage?

BG

Video stills recorded the tug's elevator position.

Where are you able to see the video footage?

BG

See if you can open these files.

https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/62000-62...018/622033.pdf
https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/62000-62...018/622036.pdf
For the full video, make a FOIA request to the NTSB or via the FAA. They've been willing to assist, though there are nominal fees in some cases. In my experience, they won't ask for a justification, though providing one might help.

I'm curious as to how many clubs or tow pilots have really trained and cut a glider loose? It takes a bit of time to react to the situation and if you've never trained or experienced it the time is even greater.
Most tow pilots have talked about it but never experienced it in the heat of the moment.
We pull an unexpected release on our glider students. When do the tug pilots get the same unexpected training?

At one of the clubs I frequent they drop the rope in the grass on landing. So at least the tug pilot is used to reaching for the release and becomes comfortable with its location.

Record of conversation in the docket:
"Mr. Wallace was interviewed via telephone. He was asked about his GoPro camera recording suddenly stopping during the accident flight. Mr. Wallace stated that he had not used the camera too many times prior to the accident flight, perhaps three or four. During the accident flight, he noticed it stopped recording and he started a new recording a few seconds later. He cannot recall if that had happened during the previous times he used the camera, but had heard from other pilots that it’s a common occurrence"