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Pilot certificate required?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 24th 18, 10:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim[_33_]
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Posts: 41
Default Pilot certificate required?

On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 12:33:37 PM UTC-8, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
If it takes one crew member to fly, then that crew member is required. Otherwise it will be an "optionally piloted" aircraft or a "remotely operated" aircraft.


Thank you Sierra Whiskey. Makes sense. I think my wish for direct and clear FARs is naive.

As an aside, it is also interesting that 61.31 appears to state that a pilot (certificated I suppose) only needs to be rated for a particular aircraft if the pilot is to fly another person or for compensation or hire in that aircraft.

Please, let us leave that pandora's box unopened.
  #12  
Old November 24th 18, 11:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,403
Default Pilot certificate required?

On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-8, Jim wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 12:33:37 PM UTC-8, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
If it takes one crew member to fly, then that crew member is required. Otherwise it will be an "optionally piloted" aircraft or a "remotely operated" aircraft.


Thank you Sierra Whiskey. Makes sense. I think my wish for direct and clear FARs is naive.

As an aside, it is also interesting that 61.31 appears to state that a pilot (certificated I suppose) only needs to be rated for a particular aircraft if the pilot is to fly another person or for compensation or hire in that aircraft.


You need to actually read what is written in the regulations. You are reading a clause that applies only in case of flight "Authorization in lieu of a type rating."
  #13  
Old November 24th 18, 11:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim[_33_]
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Posts: 41
Default Pilot certificate required?

On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 2:13:06 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-8, Jim wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 12:33:37 PM UTC-8, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
If it takes one crew member to fly, then that crew member is required. Otherwise it will be an "optionally piloted" aircraft or a "remotely operated" aircraft.


Thank you Sierra Whiskey. Makes sense. I think my wish for direct and clear FARs is naive.

As an aside, it is also interesting that 61.31 appears to state that a pilot (certificated I suppose) only needs to be rated for a particular aircraft if the pilot is to fly another person or for compensation or hire in that aircraft.


You need to actually read what is written in the regulations. You are reading a clause that applies only in case of flight "Authorization in lieu of a type rating."


Thank you Darryl. Sounds like me. I'll take a closer look.
  #14  
Old November 24th 18, 11:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim[_33_]
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Posts: 41
Default Pilot certificate required?

On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 2:13:06 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-8, Jim wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 12:33:37 PM UTC-8, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
If it takes one crew member to fly, then that crew member is required.. Otherwise it will be an "optionally piloted" aircraft or a "remotely operated" aircraft.


Thank you Sierra Whiskey. Makes sense. I think my wish for direct and clear FARs is naive.

As an aside, it is also interesting that 61.31 appears to state that a pilot (certificated I suppose) only needs to be rated for a particular aircraft if the pilot is to fly another person or for compensation or hire in that aircraft.


You need to actually read what is written in the regulations. You are reading a clause that applies only in case of flight "Authorization in lieu of a type rating."


I really should shut up since I have no idea what any of the FARs "really" mean.

14 CFR 61.31 (b) is titled "Authorization in lieu of a type rating". The section of 61.31 that seems to state the issue about the need for a rating is 61.31 (c). That section is titled "Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on the carriage of persons, or operating for compensation or hire."

Since I do not understand any of this it would come as no surprise if (c) included (b).

I'm done.
  #15  
Old November 24th 18, 11:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim[_33_]
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Posts: 41
Default Pilot certificate required?

On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 2:13:06 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-8, Jim wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 12:33:37 PM UTC-8, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
If it takes one crew member to fly, then that crew member is required.. Otherwise it will be an "optionally piloted" aircraft or a "remotely operated" aircraft.


Thank you Sierra Whiskey. Makes sense. I think my wish for direct and clear FARs is naive.

As an aside, it is also interesting that 61.31 appears to state that a pilot (certificated I suppose) only needs to be rated for a particular aircraft if the pilot is to fly another person or for compensation or hire in that aircraft.


You need to actually read what is written in the regulations. You are reading a clause that applies only in case of flight "Authorization in lieu of a type rating."


Well, I'm more confused than ever. 61.31 (b) is titled "Authorization in lieu of a type rating." It is 61.31 (c), titled "Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on the carriage of persons, or operating for compensation or hire." and it states:

" Unless a person holds a category, class, and type rating (if a class and type rating is required) that applies to the aircraft, that person may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying another person, or is operated for compensation or hire. That person also may not act as pilot in command of that aircraft for compensation or hire."

But this is followed by (d):

(d)Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an aircraft, a person must -

(1) Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown; or

(2) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the pilot certification level, aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received an endorsement for solo flight in that aircraft from an authorized instructor."

I am no longer going to try and understand the FARs.

On the other hand, maybe 61.31 (d) is the FAR that requires a person flying an aircraft to have a certificate - assuming a rating cannot be held by a person who does not have a certificate.

I'm done.
  #16  
Old November 25th 18, 02:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Pilot certificate required?

Why do you care?

On 11/24/2018 3:37 PM, Jim wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 2:13:06 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-8, Jim wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 12:33:37 PM UTC-8, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
If it takes one crew member to fly, then that crew member is required. Otherwise it will be an "optionally piloted" aircraft or a "remotely operated" aircraft.
Thank you Sierra Whiskey. Makes sense. I think my wish for direct and clear FARs is naive.

As an aside, it is also interesting that 61.31 appears to state that a pilot (certificated I suppose) only needs to be rated for a particular aircraft if the pilot is to fly another person or for compensation or hire in that aircraft.

You need to actually read what is written in the regulations. You are reading a clause that applies only in case of flight "Authorization in lieu of a type rating."

Well, I'm more confused than ever. 61.31 (b) is titled "Authorization in lieu of a type rating." It is 61.31 (c), titled "Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on the carriage of persons, or operating for compensation or hire." and it states:

" Unless a person holds a category, class, and type rating (if a class and type rating is required) that applies to the aircraft, that person may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying another person, or is operated for compensation or hire. That person also may not act as pilot in command of that aircraft for compensation or hire."

But this is followed by (d):

(d)Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an aircraft, a person must -

(1) Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown; or

(2) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the pilot certification level, aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received an endorsement for solo flight in that aircraft from an authorized instructor."

I am no longer going to try and understand the FARs.

On the other hand, maybe 61.31 (d) is the FAR that requires a person flying an aircraft to have a certificate - assuming a rating cannot be held by a person who does not have a certificate.

I'm done.


--
Dan, 5J
  #17  
Old November 25th 18, 03:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim[_33_]
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Posts: 41
Default Pilot certificate required?

On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 5:28:50 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Why do you care?

On 11/24/2018 3:37 PM, Jim wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 2:13:06 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-8, Jim wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 12:33:37 PM UTC-8, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
If it takes one crew member to fly, then that crew member is required. Otherwise it will be an "optionally piloted" aircraft or a "remotely operated" aircraft.
Thank you Sierra Whiskey. Makes sense. I think my wish for direct and clear FARs is naive.

As an aside, it is also interesting that 61.31 appears to state that a pilot (certificated I suppose) only needs to be rated for a particular aircraft if the pilot is to fly another person or for compensation or hire in that aircraft.

You need to actually read what is written in the regulations. You are reading a clause that applies only in case of flight "Authorization in lieu of a type rating."

Well, I'm more confused than ever. 61.31 (b) is titled "Authorization in lieu of a type rating." It is 61.31 (c), titled "Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on the carriage of persons, or operating for compensation or hire." and it states:

" Unless a person holds a category, class, and type rating (if a class and type rating is required) that applies to the aircraft, that person may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying another person, or is operated for compensation or hire. That person also may not act as pilot in command of that aircraft for compensation or hire."

But this is followed by (d):

(d)Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an aircraft, a person must -

(1) Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown; or

(2) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the pilot certification level, aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received an endorsement for solo flight in that aircraft from an authorized instructor."

I am no longer going to try and understand the FARs.

On the other hand, maybe 61.31 (d) is the FAR that requires a person flying an aircraft to have a certificate - assuming a rating cannot be held by a person who does not have a certificate.

I'm done.


--
Dan, 5J


Wonderful question! I have no idea - except I may be asked about it. Happily, I have no problem with answering "I have no idea".

I may be cursed with a need for what feels like clarity. I'm looking forward to the intervention.
  #18  
Old November 25th 18, 03:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Posts: 290
Default Pilot certificate required?

So can you put a non rated person (passenger) in an optionally piloted aircraft?
  #19  
Old November 25th 18, 03:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 774
Default Pilot certificate required?

On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 7:09:39 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
So can you put a non rated person (passenger) in an optionally piloted aircraft?


Ballast
 




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