A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old September 27th 16, 06:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 174
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

No mechanical vario for me.

I have 2 separate battery circuits (tail & main, both supported by solar) and the LXNav S10/100 has an internal battery backup for all functions (up to 4 hours).

I felt like a mechanical vario was a waste of panel as a total power loss results no audio vario or navigation (or logging). I also use a nano for a logger backup. And of course mechanical varios require a bottle (PITA).

Sean
  #82  
Old September 27th 16, 07:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 668
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

I use mechanical vario to get more info from airmass, not as a backup. I have never experienced electrical variometer failure (nor heard of one), and if I did, that would not even remotely be classified as a problem, more like a minor inconvenience. Only backup I have is second battery.
  #83  
Old September 27th 16, 09:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bumper[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 434
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

It's not undisturbed air. On my ex Stemmes , serial 11-18, the nose TERRY was severely under compensatedevelopment due to the bow wave. I increased the TE "washer" size to 3/4" IIRC and that helped a lot. Other Stemmed owners followed suit and agreed. Stemmes did not come stock with fin mounted probes then, some owners got them when the issue became known.
  #84  
Old September 27th 16, 09:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 402
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

Le mardi 27 septembre 2016 08:11:20 UTC+2, krasw a écritÂ*:
I use mechanical vario to get more info from airmass, not as a backup. I have never experienced electrical variometer failure (nor heard of one), and if I did, that would not even remotely be classified as a problem, more like a minor inconvenience. Only backup I have is second battery.


Why would a mechanical vario give you more information on airmass?
  #85  
Old September 27th 16, 02:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 668
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

On Tuesday, 27 September 2016 11:15:02 UTC+3, Tango Whisky wrote:
Why would a mechanical vario give you more information on airmass?


That is interesting question. If it would give identical information, the varios should read exactly the same. They obviously are not, so they are either measuring TE pressure differently, or one of them is measuring same thing but poorly (which I don't agree with, in some gusting thermals my Bohli reacts more realistically than electric vario). I feel getting two "opinions" from same thing is advantage (three actually if you count inertial variometer). Heck, I would gladly install fourth variometer if that tells me something new, instead of duplicating something I already have.
  #86  
Old September 27th 16, 02:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

Only compass that works as a data source for wind vector calculations, to my knowledge, is the Zander's. Of course, it is part of the Zander system (can't add the Zander compass interface to instruments by other manufacturers).

I would discourage anyone from adding an electronic compass module to their existing computers, as it's just not working properly. Probably due to extreme sensibility to pitch changes, and software unable to correct that.
If on a low budget, buy a working, used Zander set.
If on a higher budget, try the newer inertial varios.

I agree that accurate and real-time wind calculation is of very high interest to soaring techniques. I used it for years and I just can't adapt to fly woithout it.

all IMVHO, of course!

Aldo Cernezzi




It is not enough to throw in electric compass if the system is not up to it. Many variometer systems have compass option that manufacturers do not use for any meaningful data. Representative of one company told me of pilot who was very happy after installing optional compass module. He didn't have the heart to tell pilot that variometer firmware version couldn't use compass data at all. I always take pilot reports with a grain of salt.

  #87  
Old September 27th 16, 02:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

In the past I flew an old Stemme S10V for many hours. Loved it, but vario was very undercompensated.
Would love you to expand on the "washer" mod. I just can't figure what you mean.

thanks!

Aldo Cernezzi




Il giorno martedì 27 settembre 2016 10:13:43 UTC+2, bumper ha scritto:
It's not undisturbed air. On my ex Stemmes , serial 11-18, the nose TERRY was severely under compensatedevelopment due to the bow wave. I increased the TE "washer" size to 3/4" IIRC and that helped a lot.

  #88  
Old September 27th 16, 03:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 463
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 10:35:58 AM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
On Monday, 26 September 2016 17:24:02 UTC+3, Richard wrote:
On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 11:15:12 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
On Monday, 26 September 2016 04:25:15 UTC+3, Sean wrote:
LXNav S10 backup this spring for my new panel. I do not think the butterfly is worth the price...

SMF
7T

What are you backing up with S10? Don't you have mechanical vario?


No need for a mechanical backup the S10 has an internal backup battery for 3 hrs of use.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com


Never heard of anyone not having a mechanical vario in glider.


No mechanical vario for me over the last 15 years. Never missed it. My standby is a Westerboer with pressure sensors, compensated on the same line as my 302. I also have an A-B battery switch.
Herb J7
  #89  
Old September 27th 16, 03:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,610
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 2:56:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
... sensor unit needs to be mostly well clear of any magnets or any
moving ferrous control rods. It turns out that most of our gliders
have been magnetized a bit in their lifetime. Dave Nadler told me
that they tried to incorporate some sort of compass data in the
SN10 but were unable to overcome that obstacle.


We researched this long time ago. One test placed a sensor inside canopy
on top of pilot to minimize magnetic distractions during testing. The
pilot was shocked when, after releasing from tow, he retracted the gear
and the compass swung 15 degrees! IIRC ILEC's LS-8 had very highly
magnetized gear linkage components.

Ultimately we decided then current technology would not give enough
benefit over our no-compass algorithm, and wouldn't be glider-pilot-proof
for installation... so did not bring the compass to market...

...As a side note, after years of flying with the Ilec SN10 I think
it is still the best at computing and displaying average winds.


Thanks, you are not alone ;-)
  #90  
Old September 27th 16, 04:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 668
Default AA Butterfly versus CNv LCD wind calculation

tiistai 27. syyskuuta 2016 16.50.57 UTC+3 kirjoitti:
Only compass that works as a data source for wind vector calculations, to my knowledge, is the Zander's. Of course, it is part of the Zander system (can't add the Zander compass interface to instruments by other manufacturers).

I would discourage anyone from adding an electronic compass module to their existing computers, as it's just not working properly. Probably due to extreme sensibility to pitch changes, and software unable to correct that.
If on a low budget, buy a working, used Zander set.
If on a higher budget, try the newer inertial varios.

I agree that accurate and real-time wind calculation is of very high interest to soaring techniques. I used it for years and I just can't adapt to fly woithout it.

all IMVHO, of course!

Aldo Cernezzi



Even Zander compass was very sensitive to installation. I installed one Zander system to a LS8 for WGC years ago and calibrated it with factory calibration compass. It worked fantastically giving very accurate readings. After that my club bought similar system to D2 and it didn't work at all, even after many calibration attempts. I have flown third glider with similar setup, and that also did not work. We never understood why. With current knowledge of compass sensor installation problems, there might have been speaker or something too close to compass.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
302 wind calculation AK Soaring 21 April 3rd 10 01:27 PM
302 wind calculation 5Z Soaring 1 March 26th 10 12:56 PM
302 wind calculation Darryl Ramm Soaring 0 March 26th 10 04:04 AM
302 wind calculation AK Soaring 0 March 26th 10 03:47 AM
Vector Wind, Relative Wind calculation C 302/303 [email protected] Soaring 2 December 9th 08 08:23 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.