Best performing Vario?

On Saturday, September 29, 2012 4:08:26 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
I sure hope that the ClearNav folks are gathering input here about the benefit of a good climb maximizer feature.

Noted.

T8 for ClearNav

At 16:28 29 September 2012, AGL wrote:

One good reason is fiberglass construction, modern airfoils, and
heavy=20
gliders. Fly slowly at 1-26 or K-6 speeds, and even a pellet vario
can=20
work well. Blast through the thermal at 90-100 knots, full of water ...
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to=20
=20

So, the question becomes, what software is best for what conditions?
This
=
post assumes that the varios input to the software shows true lift
without
=
gusts etc.

The PC SeeYou stats showed that on 200 km of distance yesterday, with
overd=
eveloped cloudbases as low as 2500 ft AGL, average climbs were as low as
1
=
knot or zero, getting blown home on wind. Most "circles" showed lift and
4=
knot gusts at opposite sides of the circle, and sink everywhere else.
Mov=
ing to one direction to the other resulted in the same thing with a
differe=
nt set of short term lift bubbles. That's trying both slow 45 degree
banks=
, or back and forth sniffing in the bubbly area that had more lift than
sin=
k. When you're that low you have to do what you have to do.

Other people's flights on the OLC that day showed pretty mush the same
cond=
itions/results, but I didn't see anyone doing the "sniff around" method.

Sometimes you just have to fly around a bubbly area that has more lift
than=
sink, and a 1 minute average lift option on a very weak bubble day would
h=
elp. That's about the size of a "sniff around" area, which isn't a
thermal=
at all even if there is more lift than sink. "Last thermal" stats on
soft=
ware I've used/seen so far stops working as soon as you go straight for
any=
length of time.

So, what I'm saying is that the software development and discussion seems
t=
o be optimized for classic Texas lift silos on nice days, not for
overdevel=
oped low weak days when you'r relying on the circulation from latent heat
o=
f liquidization just under cloudbase.

The suggested XCSOAR thermal assistant screen
http://bugs.xcsoar.org/raw-at=
tachment/ticket/2148/modifiedthermalassistant.png would work well for
these=
conditions if it would show a one mile sniffing area with bubble
clusters,=
even if you're flying back and forth rather than circling. The outer
ring=
would still work for the classic thermal situation.

So, I would suggest that Tobias' proposal works for more situations than
An=
drzej's objection, since not all of us can assume classic thermal silos
of
=
lift on non-classic lift days.


Try an LX8000 with track set to display vario (colour coding). Great for
sniffing around as you describe, and thermals that shift as you climb.

Mike

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 20:31:15 +0000, Michael Clarke wrote:

Try an LX8000 with track set to display vario (colour coding). Great for
sniffing around as you describe, and thermals that shift as you climb.

Agreed about the colour coded track. LK8000 uses the same colour coding
scheme for its track display. I find this is more useful for sniffing
round a thermal than the thermal finder, which I've turned off. As my
normal thermalling technique uses the vario audio to re-center every
circle I don't bother looking at LK8000 once I've found the thermal,
though I may occasionally glance at its thermalling history bar.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

not sure what color profile the LX8000 is using, but XCSoar also shows the track color coded to the amount of lift. you can choose between two different color sets (including the Naviter/SeeYou color profile) and a third one that color codes the altitude instead of the lift.

basically that means that there are two types of thermal assistants in XCSoar. the traditional method with the color coded track on the map and the additional thermal assistant gauge that obviously works best for perfect round thermals and a good vario connected to it.

I personally have used the gauge for about two years now with my XCSoar device connected to a Flarm, that only outputs the barometric altitude and no direct vario signal, and I have to say that even with this small setup I am still impressed on how well the assistant already works. I can't even imagine how perfect it would work when connected to the "best performing vario" that this thread was originally about.

I have been flying with the CNv for a season and can say it is the best vario I have ever had in my panel. I installed the unit at the field on the practice day of the 15m nats - and was immediately comfortable and confident with the CNv - I found it to be accurate, smooth and fast - especially on windy/choppy days or when low in rough small thermals. I don't look at my vario much when flying - I usually just take an occasional look at the averager to understand lift quality - and use the vario audio as primary guidance to find/center the best lift. Although the ClearNav team is developing an extended set of features for the CNv, these are much less important to me personally - I really just want a vario to provide excellent air/lift information - especially when low and in a jam. Based on one season of flying, for me, the CNv delivers.

Ken Kochanski - KK
ClearNav Website Support

On Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:39:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:10:55 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
My favorite until recently was the Westerboer VW900. Great for digging out
from low. My new favorite is the CNv. Eagerly awaiting the updates for it.

-- Matt

Me too. Did exactly the same thing and think the VW910 was almost as good as my CNv (for vario/netto function). My old stuff is now on sale on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/130775771120

-Jim

Can anyone tell me how CN switches from Cruise to Climb with the
software available (assuming no switch installed)?

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:16:24 PM UTC-4, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
Can anyone tell me how CN switches from Cruise to Climb with the

software available (assuming no switch installed)?

In the case of my vario, it showed up with a switch already wired in. A
software update came along about the same time that enabled automatic
switching at 65kts. Unfortunately you can only do one or the other right
now; I couldn't find a config screen in the vario to change that. The change has to be done using their profile generator program on a PC.

The switch was easy to install in the panel, but
it's a pain to have to fiddle with it whenever you want to start working
a thermal. 65kts is just too fast in my plane for searching for lift
down low (it's about MC 1.5kts for me).

This does seem to be a work in progress however. I'm hoping for a circling
detector at some point.

-- Matt

On Oct 1, 10:36*am, wrote:

This does seem to be a work in progress however. *I'm hoping for a circling
detector at some point.

Yes, and it's coming, respectively. Probably GPS track based (like
302, which works great).

T8 for ClearNav

On Sep 29, 3:08*pm, Steve Koerner wrote:
I sure hope that the ClearNav folks are gathering input here about the benefit of a good climb maximizer feature. *I am in agreement with the posters here who think that only WinPilot has gotten it right so far. * I do wish that the ClearNav software would include an emulation of the WinPilot climb maximizer so that I can finally ditch the damn PDA from my panel. *The zoom-in feature that the ClearNav offers now is nowhere nears as good. *As Tim has noted, the maximizer should come on automatically and quickly, then quickly go off when you leave the thermal. *The WinPilot continuous graph is way more effective than lift dots.

One characteristic that is also important and not yet mentioned here is the matter of time delay. *WinPilot has no discernable delay; whereas other systems, including ClearNav, have a time delay in the display that makes it very difficult to interpret what's really going on when trying to reposition in a thermal.

Simple suggestions for CN maximizer improvement:
1) Automatic on as you start thermaling!
2) Drift the dots with the wind.
3) include a N arrow to help deal with screen refresh delay
4) anticipate the screen refresh time -- paint the screen rotated in
the direction of turn so that by the time the screen is refreshed it's
pointing where you want to go.
5) blank dots more than 10 circles old -- or keep them as track only
but not dots (useful to find old thermals, but the dots all merge to a
green mess otherwise)

Even in its current form the CN display is very useful. I was out
thrashing around in broken up blue thermals all weekend; when you try
some big maneuver that doesn't work out it's very easy to lose track
of where that last good gust was. Even in wind, I got back to several
cores that I had lost with CN.
I also find it useful when you find a big tight core and you're full
of water. The big zoomie and turn leaves you several diameters away
from the original core. Keeping track of the effect of speed on
thermaling moves is hard.
But... don't forget to look outside for birds, corn stalks, other
gliders, etc. ... still better than any maximizer!

John Cochane