Radio acting up

Hello all,

My Becker 4201 just started acting up. Specifically, it has a cyclic regular dead spot when transmitting, so the person listening to you gets about half of each word. It receives just fine, and all functions work as they should. Same thing happens with a fully charged battery or one that has been used for several hours. Has anyone ever run in to this?

Thanks,

3Y

I would suspect your microphone. Perhaps you could borrow a known good
mic and fly with it.

On 10/18/2015 3:05 PM, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
Hello all,

My Becker 4201 just started acting up. Specifically, it has a cyclic regular dead spot when transmitting, so the person listening to you gets about half of each word. It receives just fine, and all functions work as they should. Same thing happens with a fully charged battery or one that has been used for several hours. Has anyone ever run in to this?

Thanks,

3Y

--
Dan, 5J

Believe the 4201 has a transmit indication on the display. Are you getting intermittent indication there too?
If so, not the microphone but could be the wiring of the PTT. or the switch itself. A bit of extra resistance and you won't get a clean switch to "transmit".
Check that the D-Sub connector on the back of the radio is fully locked, and the power supply is good. Exercise the breaker or remove and replace the fuse. Damaged wiring would limit current to the radio which could give the same result. It takes more current to transmit.
Jim

On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
I would suspect your microphone.* Perhaps you could borrow a known
good mic and fly with it.




On 10/18/2015 3:05 PM, Blake Seese 3Y
wrote:



Hello all,

My Becker 4201 just started acting up. Specifically, it has a cyclic regular dead spot when transmitting, so the person listening to you gets about half of each word. It receives just fine, and all functions work as they should. Same thing happens with a fully charged battery or one that has been used for several hours. Has anyone ever run in to this?

Thanks,

3Y


Dan, 5J

At 21:24 18 October 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
I would suspect your microphone. Perhaps you could borrow a known good
mic and fly with it.

Or it might be the depth of Modulation in the transmitter?


On 10/18/2015 3:05 PM, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
Hello all,

My Becker 4201 just started acting up. Specifically, it has a cyclic
regular dead spot when transmitting, so the person listening to you gets
about half of each word. It receives just fine, and all functions work as
they should. Same thing happens with a fully charged battery or one that
has been used for several hours. Has anyone ever run in to this?

Thanks,

3Y

--
Dan, 5J

Intermittent problems are the worst to troubleshoot. I assume this problem just started happening. Here are some generic ideas to eliminate possibilities;

- Is the push to talk switch intermittent and while bouncing around in a thermal you are effectively not transmitting part of the time? Clue: does it also happen on the ground without bouncing?
- Microphone can also become intermittent while bouncing around in the air.
- Try replacing your battery with another from a friend (lithium would be best). Even though you said you had a fully charged battery, transmitting is the heaviest current use you have (except maybe a transponder) and if the battery voltage droops too much it can stop transmitting. Then the voltage rebounds and you start transmitting again. Repeat ad infinitum.
- Is it interference? Shut off all other avionics, varios, etc.
- Antenna? Temporarily replace the glider's antenna with a portable's "rubber duckie" antenna. If the glider's antenna is bad check or replace the BNC connector as a first step.

Anyone else have some troubleshooting tips?

Ultimately, you may need to send the transceiver to a shop for a bench test.. Make sure they know Beckers and that you tell them about your symptoms. Good luck. Report back!

On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 10:10:56 AM UTC-7, Six-Seven Romeo wrote:
Intermittent problems are the worst to troubleshoot. I assume this problem just started happening. Here are some generic ideas to eliminate possibilities;

- Is the push to talk switch intermittent and while bouncing around in a thermal you are effectively not transmitting part of the time? Clue: does it also happen on the ground without bouncing?
- Microphone can also become intermittent while bouncing around in the air.

If you have a friend with the same radio, and known working, swap radios
and see if the problem stays with your glider or moves to his.

On 10/22/2015 12:43 PM, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 10:10:56 AM UTC-7, Six-Seven Romeo wrote:
Intermittent problems are the worst to troubleshoot. I assume this problem just started happening. Here are some generic ideas to eliminate possibilities;

- Is the push to talk switch intermittent and while bouncing around in a thermal you are effectively not transmitting part of the time? Clue: does it also happen on the ground without bouncing?
- Microphone can also become intermittent while bouncing around in the air.
- Try replacing your battery with another from a friend (lithium would be best). Even though you said you had a fully charged battery, transmitting is the heaviest current use you have (except maybe a transponder) and if the battery voltage droops too much it can stop transmitting. Then the voltage rebounds and you start transmitting again. Repeat ad infinitum.
- Is it interference? Shut off all other avionics, varios, etc.
- Antenna? Temporarily replace the glider's antenna with a portable's "rubber duckie" antenna. If the glider's antenna is bad check or replace the BNC connector as a first step.

Anyone else have some troubleshooting tips?

Ultimately, you may need to send the transceiver to a shop for a bench test. Make sure they know Beckers and that you tell them about your symptoms. Good luck. Report back!
Check your radio chassis grounding, and make sure it is very secure.

Matt H

--
Dan, 5J

On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 3:05:51 PM UTC-6, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
Hello all,

My Becker 4201 just started acting up. Specifically, it has a cyclic regular dead spot when transmitting, so the person listening to you gets about half of each word. It receives just fine, and all functions work as they should. Same thing happens with a fully charged battery or one that has been used for several hours. Has anyone ever run in to this?

Thanks,

3Y

Great tips all, thank you! One other question, would using a deep cycle battery cause any issues?
3Y

On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-4, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 3:05:51 PM UTC-6, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
Hello all,

My Becker 4201 just started acting up. Specifically, it has a cyclic regular dead spot when transmitting, so the person listening to you gets about half of each word. It receives just fine, and all functions work as they should. Same thing happens with a fully charged battery or one that has been used for several hours. Has anyone ever run in to this?

Thanks,

3Y

Great tips all, thank you! One other question, would using a deep cycle battery cause any issues?
3Y

It shouldn't, volts are volts. I will add though, lead acid batteries have a long tapered discharge graph, a lot of people are now switching to the newer "LiFe" (and similar) battery chemistries. They tend to have a much flatter overall discharge graph maintaining a higher voltage level longer.
These new batteries also weigh a fraction of lead acid batteries (your typical Gel-Cell types in use for decades).

Some radios don't perform as well when the voltage drops a bit, couple that with an older battery, the voltage can dip even more when loaded (like during a radio transmission).

There have been a few discussions regarding these new batteries on this forum. There are also a few different vendors here that sell them.
Yes, they cost more, but seem to have a better life, better performance and can be had with a higher capacity in the same space as the older 12 volts ~7AH batteries.

Blake.
For practical purposes, all of our glider batteries are deep cycle batteries. The deep cycle batteries are intended for moderate currents over long periods of time (say 1 Amp over 6 hours for a 7Ah Lead Acid AGM battery). Contrary to a car battery that is intended for very high currents (hundreds of Amps) for a very short period of time (seconds that the starter is running).

Your problem description above is very limited, so there is a lot of guess work going on in the responses. You will have to measure to debug your system.
In my experience, most radio problems are in the wiring. First check that your wiring is solid.
Then check the easy things.
Is your PTT button solid or some flakiness there ?
Does the transmit indicator on the display stay solid on while you are transmitting ?

Does the radio display start blinking when you hold the transmit button down for 5 or 10 seconds ? The supply voltage is dropping below 10.5V. That would be an indication of a power supply problem. Could be a battery problem or a wiring problem.
Measure the supply voltage, preferably at the radio or at the panel distribution point if your battery is remote (like behind the seat). Push and hold the PTT button for 10 seconds and see if the voltage remains fairly stable.. Should not drop more than 0.5V.
If it drops significantly, check your battery for the remaining capacity. You cannot determine the battery capacity by only measuring voltage. You need to fully charge the battery and then run a load (e.g. car brake bulb) for hours until the voltage drops to 10.5V.
Product of time (in hours) and average current (in Amps) is your remaining capacity.

When your buddies receive your seemingly interrupted transmission, what exactly do they hear. When your modulation quits, do they still get the carrier (i.e. silence) or do they hear noise in between your words (i.e. the carrier is switching off).
Test it with a handheld with the squelch off to avoid the squelch from suppressing the noise.
If the carrier is interrupting, it might again be a power supply problem like above.
If the carrier remains on, it is pointing to a microphone or a radio electronics (modulator) problem.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your troubleshooting.
3U