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#1
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K21 brake parts
Does anyone know of an automotive source for the complete brake caliper
Stuart |
#2
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K21 brake parts
"Stuart Kinnear" wrote in message ... Does anyone know of an automotive source for the complete brake caliper Stuart Tost Catalog says K21 uses Cleveland wheel . It is reasonable to assume its also a cleveland brake. Aircraft Spruce among others sell Cleveland stuff Ken Reynolds |
#3
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K21 brake parts
Ken Reynolds wrote:
"Stuart Kinnear" wrote in message ... Does anyone know of an automotive source for the complete brake caliper Stuart Tost Catalog says K21 uses Cleveland wheel . It is reasonable to assume its also a cleveland brake. Aircraft Spruce among others sell Cleveland stuff Ken Reynolds I agree with the other postings, do not try to mix automotive parts with the K21 Cleveland wheel brakes. The disc is expensive and should be replaced when it gets too thin (the limit is in the manual). If the pads are worn and the disc is out of limits the pistons can extend too far out of the calliper and pop the seals, leaking fluid, spilling onto the tyre, which does in no good at all. The brake system then requires a complete rebuild. We have three K21s, two do about 800hrs per year and the other one about 200hrs per year. The discs are replaced about twice per year and the pads about three times per year. Having a spare wheel, calliper and brake pads speeds up the process. Be aware that you can get long life pads, but they must not be used on stainless steel discs. I keep an old worn disc that has been worn down to the minimum limit that makes checking wear easy. The pads are easy to replace, each pad is held by three rivets and can either be drilled out or punched out. The new set of pads are fixed with new rivets, supplied with the pads and fitted either will a screw clamp press or a hammer and punch set. Beware the pads are rather brittle. Removing the calliper is easy but the bolts must be wire locked with stainless steel locking wire. The whole system must be bleed. It is best to use a large syringe. Note that the linkage needs to be adjusted so that full air-brake can be achieved and that sufficient movement is applied to the master cylinder. As the pads can be used of military aircraft, they required an "end user certificate waiver" and are now subject to International Trade in Armament Regulations (ITAR). No Joke. Removing the wheel requires thin walled sockets (I think 17mm from memory), I have a ground down set in my toolbox. Replacing the wheel bearings is also rather problematic, they are cone roller bearings. The seats have to driven or pressed out. When the new seats are installed the gaps have to be adjusted will shims to eliminate almost all of the sideways float. The wheel is in two halves joined by six socket headed high tensile steel bolts, these must be torqued to the required setting (in the manual for the wheel), it is best to replace the nylock nuts every time the wheel is taken apart. To avoid nipping the tube, partiarly inflate the tube during assembly. The standard tube valve protrudes too far and can fowl the brake, so short lengths of tube (fuel pipe) are used to provide clearance. The same trick is used on the nose wheel and the tail wheel. The wheels can also corrode so I give them a light coating of a silicon or PTFE spray (GT 85 as used on bike chains is very good). We replace the main wheel bearings and tyres every three years after about 2,000 - 2,500hrs, 12,000 to 15,000 launches and landings. Our club does about 10,000 launches per year (90% by winch) and we land on grass. The nose wheel pressure has been reduced and the tail wheel pressure increased in order to minimise damage to the glider. If the nose wheel bearings stick the wheel rotates on the fixed axel and as this is a metal on metal surface wears quickly and makes a lot of noise on the winch launch (the high speed winds up the wheel and requires the glider to be flown very slowly before it stops). The fix is to use some sot of bearing locking solution when the axel is fitted. The tip is to fit the axle, push it out an inch apply the solution, push it in and pull it out until enough gets onto the portion of the shaft in the bearing and tighten it up. Leaving the glider with the wheel off the ground to cure helps. We tried to minimise the damage to tail wheels by filling them with foam; it just transferred the damage to the rest of the glider! AS was about to test this fix when our technical officer (Joe Fisher) advised them that it did not work. (Joe designed the rear seat hand rudder modification for the K21, our gliders can be operated by hand rudder from either seat). The only solution to damaging the tail wheels is to increase the pressure in the tail wheel and to land properly. Ensuring that the glider is balanced on the main wheel, when turning the glider helps to reduce damage to the sidewall of the tyre. I will dig out the standard pressures and what we use now. Chris p. s. I was the Director for gliders, safety officer and vice-chairman, at our club and currently I am our full time weekly course instructor; so K21 HPV is my office. In the UK our agent is Peter Wells at Zuluglasstek, who is very helpful if anyone encounters unusual problems. NB The DG505 etc also uses automotive brake fluid DOT3/DOT4. Never use the wrong fluid as it eats the seals. |
#4
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K21 brake parts
In article , "Stuart Kinnear" wrote:
Does anyone know of an automotive source for the complete brake caliper Stuart Slightliy of topic, but important. NEVER use automotive brake fluid for the brakes in gliders! Automotive brake fluid will destroy the seals. Peter Nyffeler (Y7 HB-1689) |
#5
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K21 brake parts
nyffeler wrote:
"Stuart Kinnear" wrote: Does anyone know of an automotive source for the complete brake caliper Stuart Slightliy of topic, but important. this is in no way off-topic: NEVER use automotive brake fluid for the brakes in gliders! Automotive brake fluid will destroy the seals. Peter Nyffeler (Y7 HB-1689) BTW, it is not wise to have hydraulic brakes in a glider to fly upside down: I have experienced twice full loss of braking action after touch down. :-( -- (+49)0711-685-872-44(Fax79) --Nobelstr.19 Raum 0.030, D-70569 Stuttgart IHR Hoechstleistungsrechnen --http://www.ihr.uni-stuttgart.de/ |
#6
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K21 brake parts
Earlier, nyffeler wrote:
Slightliy of topic, but important. NEVER use automotive brake fluid for the brakes in gliders! Automotive brake fluid will destroy the seals. Except, of course, in those rare but not non-existant cases where the brakes were designed around automotive pistons and seals. A good example is the early (pre-MATCO) Rosenhan drum units used on some 1960s American gliders. |
#7
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K21 brake parts
Another example is the Stemme S10 series, which uses DOT fluid. Stemme uses
a Cleveland 300 caliper with the seals changed from Buna-N to EPDM rubber. bumper "Bob Kuykendall" wrote in message oups.com... Earlier, nyffeler wrote: Slightliy of topic, but important. NEVER use automotive brake fluid for the brakes in gliders! Automotive brake fluid will destroy the seals. Except, of course, in those rare but not non-existant cases where the brakes were designed around automotive pistons and seals. A good example is the early (pre-MATCO) Rosenhan drum units used on some 1960s American gliders. |
#8
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K21 brake parts
DG also uses brake fluid with a EPDM (ethylene propylene)
O-ring at least on the 800/808. I would check the manual for each specific model to determine which is used. Even if you were to change the caliper O-ring to EPDM you would still need to verify what is used for a seal in the master cylinder and lines. At 16:30 21 June 2006, Bumper wrote: Another example is the Stemme S10 series, which uses DOT fluid. Stemme uses a Cleveland 300 caliper with the seals changed from Buna-N to EPDM rubber. bumper 'Bob Kuykendall' wrote in message roups.com... Earlier, nyffeler wrote: Slightliy of topic, but important. NEVER use automotive brake fluid for the brakes in gliders! Automotive brake fluid will destroy the seals. Except, of course, in those rare but not non-existant cases where the brakes were designed around automotive pistons and seals. A good example is the early (pre-MATCO) Rosenhan drum units used on some 1960s American gliders. |
#9
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K21 brake parts
And Duo Discus. In fact most tost calipers and all Tost master
cylinders. On 21 Jun 2006 17:09:09 GMT, Gary Evans wrote: DG also uses brake fluid with a EPDM (ethylene propylene) O-ring at least on the 800/808. I would check the manual for each specific model to determine which is used. Even if you were to change the caliper O-ring to EPDM you would still need to verify what is used for a seal in the master cylinder and lines. At 16:30 21 June 2006, Bumper wrote: Another example is the Stemme S10 series, which uses DOT fluid. Stemme uses a Cleveland 300 caliper with the seals changed from Buna-N to EPDM rubber. bumper 'Bob Kuykendall' wrote in message groups.com... Earlier, nyffeler wrote: Slightliy of topic, but important. NEVER use automotive brake fluid for the brakes in gliders! Automotive brake fluid will destroy the seals. Except, of course, in those rare but not non-existant cases where the brakes were designed around automotive pistons and seals. A good example is the early (pre-MATCO) Rosenhan drum units used on some 1960s American gliders. |
#10
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K21 brake parts
Tost calipers are in fact Cleveland parts with differant
O-rings and I assume the same may be true for their master cylinders. All of this branding can get confusing. Being U.S. manufacture replacement parts (except the EPDM O-rings) can be obtained through retailers like Aircraft Spruce and the special O-rings through an industrial supplier such as MSC. At 12:12 22 June 2006, Basil wrote: And Duo Discus. In fact most tost calipers and all Tost master cylinders. On 21 Jun 2006 17:09:09 GMT, Gary Evans wrote: DG also uses brake fluid with a EPDM (ethylene propylene) O-ring at least on the 800/808. I would check the manual for each specific model to determine which is used. Even if you were to change the caliper O-ring to EPDM you would still need to verify what is used for a seal in the master cylinder and lines. At 16:30 21 June 2006, Bumper wrote: Another example is the Stemme S10 series, which uses DOT fluid. Stemme uses a Cleveland 300 caliper with the seals changed from Buna-N to EPDM rubber. bumper 'Bob Kuykendall' wrote in message egroups.com... Earlier, nyffeler wrote: Slightliy of topic, but important. NEVER use automotive brake fluid for the brakes in gliders! Automotive brake fluid will destroy the seals. Except, of course, in those rare but not non-existant cases where the brakes were designed around automotive pistons and seals. A good example is the early (pre-MATCO) Rosenhan drum units used on some 1960s American gliders. |
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