First approach in actual

Today was the first time I've ever been established on approach, in actual.
A bit unnerving if I say so myself. Partly because it's been a month since
I've been able to fly.
We (another instrument pilot and I) started down into La Grange (KLGC) after
we were cleared for the approach and had to intercept the localizer while
still in the clouds. I over-banked a bit at first. We only had to descend
through about 2000' of cloud deck, but it sure felt like a lot more. We
broke out at ~1500' AGL, a little to the right of the localizer and above
the slope.

I think it will be a lot more hours before I attempt any single pilot IFR.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Wizard of Draws wrote in message news:BD8F446E.28C81%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdra ws.com...
Today was the first time I've ever been established on approach, in actual.
A bit unnerving if I say so myself. Partly because it's been a month since
I've been able to fly.
We (another instrument pilot and I) started down into La Grange (KLGC) after
we were cleared for the approach and had to intercept the localizer while
still in the clouds. I over-banked a bit at first. We only had to descend
through about 2000' of cloud deck, but it sure felt like a lot more. We
broke out at ~1500' AGL, a little to the right of the localizer and above
the slope.

I think it will be a lot more hours before I attempt any single pilot IFR.

Sounds like a good plan with regards to acquiring more time. Due to
knee surgery I hadn't flown in about month, so yesterday I went up
with my instructor to brush up and get back in the groove. While we
didn't have much IMC during the approach phase, we made most of the
return trip back in IMC. After getting the IR my first trip without a
CFI in IMC was with another pilot, so I'm a fan of this gradual
approach into single pilot IMC. Just having another pilot next to you
that could help out if things started going wrong definitely increases
your confidence. While I have a few guys that I will go up with as
safety pilots, it's my goal to go up with my instructor every 2-3
months. I also asked him to call me on any day where the ceilings are
near minimums and he doesn't have a student, even if it means ducking
out of work. :-)

Congrats on the first step.

Dave

"Wizard of Draws" wrote:
I think it will be a lot more hours before I attempt any single pilot IFR.

[sings] "Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby!"

The first time you take off by yourself and plow into a low overcast while
turning is a real sphincter tightener. That experience will make you
understand how close to death you *really* are - in a way no CFII can quite
get across.

I wish I could tell you that you will be able to train to the point where
your first solo experiences will be "no sweat," but I just don't think so.
Yes, you are right to ease into it. Practice in IMC with an instructor
every chance you get; that will help, but the time is going to come when you
are going to have to just do it. From reading your posts, I suspect you
will do fine.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

On 10/11/04 5:37 PM, in article , "Dan
Luke" wrote:


"Wizard of Draws" wrote:
I think it will be a lot more hours before I attempt any single pilot IFR.

[sings] "Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby!"

The first time you take off by yourself and plow into a low overcast while
turning is a real sphincter tightener. That experience will make you
understand how close to death you *really* are - in a way no CFII can quite
get across.


This was my biggest learning experience from this flight. Descending *and*
turning to intercept the localizer while in the clouds was what caught my
attention and made me realize how serious this could get, and how quickly,
especially when I saw how much I had over-banked initially.

I wish I could tell you that you will be able to train to the point where
your first solo experiences will be "no sweat," but I just don't think so.
Yes, you are right to ease into it. Practice in IMC with an instructor
every chance you get; that will help, but the time is going to come when you
are going to have to just do it. From reading your posts, I suspect you
will do fine.

It's funny how much I'm wishing for IMC, now that I have the rating. All the
primary students in the area are probably ready to stick pins in little
Wizard of Draws' voodoo dolls.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:BD90A9BF.28E0E%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 10/11/04 5:37 PM, in article , "Dan
Luke" wrote:


"Wizard of Draws" wrote:
I think it will be a lot more hours before I attempt any single pilot
IFR.

[sings] "Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby!"

The first time you take off by yourself and plow into a low overcast
while
turning is a real sphincter tightener. That experience will make you
understand how close to death you *really* are - in a way no CFII can
quite
get across.


This was my biggest learning experience from this flight. Descending *and*
turning to intercept the localizer while in the clouds was what caught my
attention and made me realize how serious this could get, and how quickly,
especially when I saw how much I had over-banked initially.

That's when you really, really understand why you did those unusual attitude
drills.

I've done a few single-pilot IMC flights (mostly flying 50-100 miles IMC to
get in the clear) shortly after earning my rating. While I don't have any problem
with normal operations in the soup, it's the unknowns of potentential task saturation
that I'm mostly concerned with. I'm hoping to get some good solid IMC practice with
another IR pilot before I head out on another 2.5hour IMC on a 4 hour x-c with a 600',
2mi LOC/DME at the end. It's all about building confidence, and having someone to
hold the plane for a minute while you collect your charts/plates/frequencies/weather
briefing/wits would be a nice safety-net to task saturation. I believe most people
call them "auto-pilots," but my plane is not so equipped...

-Cory

Dan Luke wrote:

: "Wizard of Draws" wrote:
: I think it will be a lot more hours before I attempt any single pilot IFR.

: [sings] "Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby!"

: The first time you take off by yourself and plow into a low overcast while
: turning is a real sphincter tightener. That experience will make you
: understand how close to death you *really* are - in a way no CFII can quite
: get across.

: I wish I could tell you that you will be able to train to the point where
: your first solo experiences will be "no sweat," but I just don't think so.
: Yes, you are right to ease into it. Practice in IMC with an instructor
: every chance you get; that will help, but the time is going to come when you
: are going to have to just do it. From reading your posts, I suspect you
: will do fine.
: --
: Dan
: C-172RG at BFM



--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:
I've done a few single-pilot IMC flights (mostly flying 50-100 miles
IMC to
get in the clear) shortly after earning my rating. While I don't have
any problem
with normal operations in the soup, it's the unknowns of potentential
task saturation
that I'm mostly concerned with.

Yep, I agree. I've done quite a few single-pilot approaches in actual
IMC, and the most important thing I've learned is that there is a fine
line between being ahead of the situation and being behind it. Staying
ahead starts way before arrival in the terminal area. If you're not
completely ready by the time you get that first vector to final or,
worse, when you arrive at the IAF of a full approach, you are in serious
jeopardy of getting irretrievably behind. Task saturation can result,
and I believe this is the cause of many fatal IFR accidents.

It's all about building confidence, and having someone to
hold the plane for a minute while you collect your
charts/plates/frequencies/weather
briefing/wits would be a nice safety-net to task saturation. I
believe most people
call them "auto-pilots," but my plane is not so equipped...

What are you going to do when you don't have that? Don't get me wrong,
I'm a firm believer that a good autopilot reduces the risk of
single-pilot IFR operations - I use mine extensively - but what if it
dies? Shouldn't you be able to hand fly the procedures to minimums
without help?
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:
: It's all about building confidence, and having someone to
: hold the plane for a minute while you collect your
: charts/plates/frequencies/weather
: briefing/wits would be a nice safety-net to task saturation. I
: believe most people
: call them "auto-pilots," but my plane is not so equipped...

: What are you going to do when you don't have that? Don't get me wrong,
: I'm a firm believer that a good autopilot reduces the risk of
: single-pilot IFR operations - I use mine extensively - but what if it
: dies? Shouldn't you be able to hand fly the procedures to minimums
: without help?
: --
: Dan
: C172RG at BFM

I agree completely. Perhaps my statement was poorly written so as to be
misunderstood. My plane does not have an autopilot, nor do I believe it makes sense
to add one (can't polish a turd... PA-28-180 isn't a hard IFR machine). If one has an
autopilot, I belive that the transition to single-pilot IFR might be a bit easier,
since you can let George fly while you collect yourself/charts/wits/etc. Just during
the initial learning and confidence-building stage it could be useful as a
"backup".... You'd still better be able to do it all by hand, though. Autopilots are
good if used as a tool, but I think lots of people depend on them.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

One thing I do on an approach. I write down the minimum descent
altitude on a sticky and put it on my panel. I cannot go below that.
At 50' above that altitude, I start looking for the runway. It is all
too easy to just blow throught the MDA (DH) and keep coming down.
Important to guard against that.

Wizard of Draws wrote in message news:BD8F446E.28C81%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdra ws.com...
Today was the first time I've ever been established on approach, in actual.
A bit unnerving if I say so myself. Partly because it's been a month since
I've been able to fly.
We (another instrument pilot and I) started down into La Grange (KLGC) after
we were cleared for the approach and had to intercept the localizer while
still in the clouds. I over-banked a bit at first. We only had to descend
through about 2000' of cloud deck, but it sure felt like a lot more. We
broke out at ~1500' AGL, a little to the right of the localizer and above
the slope.

I think it will be a lot more hours before I attempt any single pilot IFR.

wrote:
My plane does not have an autopilot, nor do I believe it
makes sense to add one (can't polish a turd...
PA-28-180 isn't a hard IFR machine).

Whoa! What's wrong with flying hard IFR in a PA-28-180? I fly "hard IFR"
(not sure what your definition is) in a 172RG; it does just fine. A
Cherokee 180 should do just as well - unless you're talking about doing it
in the mountains...?

If one has an autopilot, I belive that the transition to single-pilot IFR
might be a bit easier,
since you can let George fly while you collect yourself/charts/wits/etc.

No question. The first thing I had installed in my airplane when I bought
it was a 2-axis, rate-based autopilot, but not just for "training wheels"
purposes. I still use it on every approach, unless I'm practicing hand
flying.

Just during the initial learning and confidence-building stage it could
be useful as a "backup".... You'd still better be able to do it all by
hand, though. Autopilots are good if used as a tool, but I think lots
of people depend on them.

Yep.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM