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Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 25th 11, 05:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,099
Default Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html
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  #2  
Old June 26th 11, 11:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tour egyptclub
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Posts: 8
Default Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

On Jun 25, 12:19*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html


Visit Egypt www.touregyptclub.net
  #3  
Old June 27th 11, 04:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Paynter[_2_]
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Posts: 110
Default Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

On Jun 25, 12:19*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html


Very nice article!

TA
  #4  
Old June 29th 11, 10:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_1_]
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Posts: 1,565
Default Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

On Jun 26, 8:02*pm, Frank Paynter wrote:
On Jun 25, 12:19*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html


Very nice article!

TA


Yes all good stuff for us but he's likely to be considered a heretic
by the average AOPA member. Did you see the reaction in the AOPA
magazine letters to his article on turning back after engine failure?
I suppose I should have written in support of that article since I
have taught several airplane pilots how to make engine loss turn backs
with minimum altitude loss.

Andy
  #5  
Old July 1st 11, 04:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

On Jun 29, 3:50*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jun 26, 8:02*pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

On Jun 25, 12:19*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:


http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html


Very nice article!


TA


Yes all good stuff for us but he's likely to be considered a heretic
by the average AOPA member. *Did you see the reaction in the AOPA
magazine letters to his article on turning back after engine failure?
I suppose I should have written in support of that article since I
have taught several airplane pilots how to make engine loss turn backs
with minimum altitude loss.

Andy


At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

For a small but increasing minority of airplane pilots, their thoughts
are converging on the idea they will have to find more money for fuel
or learn to fly a glider.

Bill D
  #6  
Old July 1st 11, 05:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nyal Williams[_2_]
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Posts: 259
Default Barry Schiff

Listen to a bunch of throttle holders talking about flying; what they like
to discuss is systems -- never anything else.



At 15:48 01 July 2011, Bill D wrote:
On Jun 29, 3:50=A0pm, Andy wrote:
On Jun 26, 8:02=A0pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

On Jun 25, 12:19=A0am, Frank Whiteley wrote:


http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html


Very nice article!


TA


Yes all good stuff for us but he's likely to be considered a heretic
by the average AOPA member. =A0Did you see the reaction in the AOPA
magazine letters to his article on turning back after engine failure?
I suppose I should have written in support of that article since I
have taught several airplane pilots how to make engine loss turn backs
with minimum altitude loss.

Andy


At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

For a small but increasing minority of airplane pilots, their thoughts
are converging on the idea they will have to find more money for fuel
or learn to fly a glider.

Bill D


  #7  
Old July 2nd 11, 06:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mark628CA
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Posts: 145
Default Barry Schiff

When I hear some pilots sneer at soaring (or Hang Gliding, or
ParaGliding or whatever), saying "I'd rather have an engine," I just
tell them that an engine is a handy thing to have- If you don't know
how to fly.
  #8  
Old July 2nd 11, 03:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default Barry Schiff

On Jul 1, 11:30*pm, Mark628CA wrote:
When I hear some pilots sneer at soaring (or Hang Gliding, or
ParaGliding or whatever), saying "I'd rather have an engine," I just
tell them that an engine is a handy thing to have- If you don't know
how to fly.


I'll usually try a gentler approach. I say if your need is pure
transportation, a light airplane may make sense. But, if you interest
is flying just for the fun of it, soaring deserves serious
consideration.

  #9  
Old July 3rd 11, 04:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Alan[_6_]
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Posts: 163
Default Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

In article Bill D writes:

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.


However, with a powered aircraft, I can fill the tanks for about $250,
and then head off for about 600 - 700 nautical miles. When there, another
$250 or so, and I can return home.

The glider spends some money on the tow to get started, then at the end
of the 600 trip out, is likely looking for some friend of family to tow
the trailer out to get him. If the route is as direct in the ground
vehicle, he goes 600 * 1.15 miles. Guessing 16 mpg, he goes through about
43 gal. of gasoline each way, and at $3.80/gal costs about $328 in fuel
for that return.


The cost difference may be that the powered aircraft much more frequently
completes the trip to somewhere else (and returns), while most glider flights
are fairly local.

Alan
  #10  
Old July 3rd 11, 06:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

On 7/2/2011 8:41 PM, Alan wrote:
In Bill writes:

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.


However, with a powered aircraft, I can fill the tanks for about $250,
and then head off for about 600 - 700 nautical miles. When there, another
$250 or so, and I can return home.

The glider spends some money on the tow to get started, then at the end
of the 600 trip out, is likely looking for some friend of family to tow
the trailer out to get him. If the route is as direct in the ground
vehicle, he goes 600 * 1.15 miles. Guessing 16 mpg, he goes through about
43 gal. of gasoline each way, and at $3.80/gal costs about $328 in fuel
for that return.


The cost difference may be that the powered aircraft much more frequently
completes the trip to somewhere else (and returns), while most glider flights
are fairly local.


Your comparison seems to miss the point just as much as that "real" pilot.

You are buying distance, the glider pilot is buying flying. Cost
comparisons are meaningless in that case. The glider pilot bought an
exceptional amount of flying that is not measured in just miles, but
great satisfaction. The power pilot likely did not have an exceptional
flying experience, but it still cost him a bundle.

The costs of owning and operating an aircraft are much more complex than
the fuel burned in an airplane and the retrieve cost for the glider, so
the numbers used in your example are not even a good measure of the cost
per year.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz
 




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