joining the traffic pattern quandary

Gene Whitt ) wrote:

There are seven birds on a branch. Three left. How
many are left?

Three, of course! Four right.

--
Peter
Left handed, right minded.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
news

Which letter of which law?


The letter b. FAR 91.126(b) to be specific.


The question, which you snipped: "The 45 degree turn to downwind violates
the letter of the law regardless
what the FAA sayeth." violates which law? FAR 91.126(b) make no reference to
angle of entry, nor direction of turn to ENTER the pattern flow regardless
of angle.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Gene Whitt" wrote in message
k.net...
Y'All,
How come no one has considered as one way to make a right 90-degree turn
is
to make a left-270. Of course if it were a perfect world everyone would
be
left handed and in their right mind.

Was working with a little first grader on her math book last week.
Never realized how many ways the words left and right could be used.
Consider: There are seven birds on a branch. Three left. How
many are left?


"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left."

Sorry.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Gene Whitt ) wrote:

There are seven birds on a branch. Three left. How
many are left?

Three, of course! Four right.

--
Peter
Left handed, right minded.

Three left, three right, one center.

Matt
Ham handed
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...

I think the whole question is a tempest in a teapot. Who is going to cite
the "offending" pilot for making a right turn to enter left traffic from
the 45?


Nobody.

In article ,
Matt Barrow wrote:

"Gene Whitt" wrote in message
nk.net...
Y'All,
How come no one has considered as one way to make a right 90-degree turn
is
to make a left-270. Of course if it were a perfect world everyone would
be
left handed and in their right mind.

Was working with a little first grader on her math book last week.
Never realized how many ways the words left and right could be used.
Consider: There are seven birds on a branch. Three left. How
many are left?


"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left."

Only in a Eucidean geometry.



Sorry.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 08:58:40 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

Thanks, Roy
As I've just posted to Bob, if "approaching to land" means "already in
the pattern", then I could do a 90 degree right turn onto short final,
where left pattern is in effect.

So if a RIGHT turn is permitted by the FARs onto downwind, then so
must a RIGHT turn onto final (where left traffic in effect).

Hence the quandary

Well, like I said, you need to apply common sense. Somebody just posted
about this instrument approach:
We are comparing two FAA books. Where does common sense come in there?

In the real world, yet, but not when comparing direct FAA statements
..

http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://...00379LDBCA.PDF

Let's say you're coming in from San Marcus. What are you supposed to do
when you reach KOAKS? You make a (gasp) right turn onto final. Surely
you're "approaching to land", since you're flying an approach procedure.
Are you going to worry that the runway may have a left traffic pattern and
therefore 91.126 won't let you make a right turn? Of course not.

They already got this one with the, "Unless otherwise state". :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

You need to apply common sense. If you're going to look for
inconsistencies and stupidities in the FARs, you'll spend your whole life
getting hung up on stuff like this.

Roy Smith wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating
an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area
must comply with the requirements of this section.


If an IAP requires a right turn to the final approach course you're clearly
"otherwise authorized or required".


True enough. And making a right turn from the 45 to left downwind is
just as clearly required.

I don't see it as being required. Authorized, yes, but I don't know of
any FAR that requires it. I enter the pattern on a 45 if it is
convenient. If I'm approaching from the upwind side of the field, I
overfly above pattern altitude a couple hundred feet, check the wind
indicator to confirm proper runway, look to the right for other traffic
in or entering the pattern, and then make a descending left turn into
the downwind leg. I've read arguments for and against the 45 entry and
I just don't see that either way is clearly preferable to the other.
There are vulnerabilities either way.


Matt

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Roy Smith wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating
an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area
must comply with the requirements of this section.


If an IAP requires a right turn to the final approach course you're clearly
"otherwise authorized or required".


True enough. And making a right turn from the 45 to left downwind is
just as clearly required.

I don't see it as being required. Authorized, yes, but I don't know of
any FAR that requires it. I enter the pattern on a 45 if it is
convenient.

I think you mis-parsed my statement. What I meant was "If you are on
the 45, and you want to turn onto left downwind, it is required that you
make a right turn". I did not mean to imply that you are required to
make a 45 entry.

What I meant was "If you are on
the 45, and you want to turn onto left downwind, it is required that you
make a right turn".

No it's not. What is required is that you end up pointing 45 degrees
to the right. You can do this by turning left 315 degrees. Of course
it makes only almost as much sense as doing 270 degree turns instead
of a 90 the other way.

Jose
--
Money: What you need when you run out of brains.
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