Reverse seeding (USA)

Will someone please explain why the subject of "reverse seeding" for
the Region 9 contest at Parowan keeps coming up. Regionals are
Regionals, and Regionals are for the contest pilots that live in the
region. Others are welcome to come if the contest is not filled.
Applicants from the contest region have priority based on seeding, not
reverse seeding. Applicants from outside the region also have
priority based on seeding, not reverse seeding.

Has it ever been any different?

Is this an issue for Parowan because someone outside the region chose
to organise a regional contest there?


Andy

Applicants from outside the region also have
priority based on seeding, not reverse seeding.

Unfortunately that's not the case, Andy. Take a look at Parowan entry list at
http://parowan.soaringweb.net/Entry.html You will see a bunch of top
pilots that won't be flying the contest which is limited to 50, due to parking
space.

The *reverse seeding* rule is a well intended, but mis-guided attempt to get
new guys into the sport (racing), but is being done at the expense of guys like
me who have supported racing for 30 years as Manager, CD, Ops guy, Photo
guy,roap snagger, you name it.

No good dead goes un-punished,
JJ Sinclair

JJ Sinclair wrote:
Applicants from outside the region also have
priority based on seeding, not reverse seeding.


Unfortunately that's not the case, Andy. Take a look at Parowan entry list at

http://parowan.soaringweb.net/Entry.html You will see a bunch of top

pilots that won't be flying the contest which is limited to 50, due to parking
space.

The *reverse seeding* rule is a well intended, but mis-guided attempt to get
new guys into the sport (racing), but is being done at the expense of guys like
me who have supported racing for 30 years as Manager, CD, Ops guy, Photo
guy,roap snagger, you name it.

No good dead goes un-punished,
JJ Sinclair

Hmm, the only good dead I ever knew of died with Jerry Garcia.
:-)

Shawn

"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message
...
Applicants from outside the region also have
priority based on seeding, not reverse seeding.

Unfortunately that's not the case, Andy. Take a look at Parowan entry list
at
http://parowan.soaringweb.net/Entry.html You will see a bunch of
top
pilots that won't be flying the contest which is limited to 50, due to
parking
space.

The *reverse seeding* rule is a well intended, but mis-guided attempt to
get
new guys into the sport (racing), but is being done at the expense of guys
like
me who have supported racing for 30 years as Manager, CD, Ops guy, Photo
guy,roap snagger, you name it.

No good dead goes un-punished,
JJ Sinclair

You're giving a little less than the full story here. The reverse seeding
applies to "SPORTS CLASS" applicants. This means that a Sports pilot who
has never flown a contest has an equal standing overall as a Standard or 15M
applicant who is a Nationals winner (100 pts).

As it stands now, there are 7 Sports pilots from outside Region 9 who are
likely to get in based on the reverse seeding rule, and 5 highly ranked
Standard and 15M pilots who are likely to get in based on conventional
seeding.

To get in now you need to be from Region 9, or be a contest newbie and fly
Sports, or be ranked above about 92 pts and fly Std or 15M .

Have you considered getting an unseeded "ringer" to register for you? You
then fly "co-pilot" in your two seater and the "ringer" gets a great
learning experience.

mm

(Andy Durbin) wrote in message . com...
Will someone please explain why the subject of "reverse seeding" for
the Region 9 contest at Parowan keeps coming up. Regionals are
Regionals, and Regionals are for the contest pilots that live in the
region. Others are welcome to come if the contest is not filled.
Applicants from the contest region have priority based on seeding, not
reverse seeding. Applicants from outside the region also have
priority based on seeding, not reverse seeding.

Has it ever been any different?

Is this an issue for Parowan because someone outside the region chose
to organise a regional contest there?


Andy

As I understand it the reverse seeding only applys to Sports Class. If
I counted right I see 6 pilots that do not have seeding scores and
thus have a seeding score of 100 that gives them priority over pilots
with seed scores.

Of course the thinking is that sports class is the beginners class and
it really isn't fair to give highly seeded pilots spots that might
otherwise have been taken by new contest pilots.

It is unfortunate that the organisers set an overall limit of
contestents instead of limits on each class. If they had limited each
class the more highly seed pilots flying 15 meter or open would not
have been bumped by these pilots.

On the other hand these 6 new contest pilots might be among the pilots
that support soaring contests for the next 30 years.

Brian

Have you considered getting an unseeded "ringer" to register for you? You
then fly "co-pilot" in your two seater and the "ringer" gets a great
learning experience.

mm

There are several ways to beat this *reverse seeding* thing;
1. Don't offer sports class (Minden)
2. Get a *ringer* to use as the named pilot.
3. KS is working on a *creative alternative* to region 9's monopolization of
entry positions.
JJ Sinclair

JJ Sinclair wrote:


Have you considered getting an unseeded "ringer" to register for you? You
then fly "co-pilot" in your two seater and the "ringer" gets a great
learning experience.

mm

There are several ways to beat this *reverse seeding* thing;
1. Don't offer sports class (Minden)
2. Get a *ringer* to use as the named pilot.
3. KS is working on a *creative alternative* to region 9's monopolization
of entry positions.
JJ Sinclair

Are you saying that also object to Region 9 pilots having preference in a
Region 9 contest? It seems to me that that is the whole point of a
"regional" contest.

What about the "old guy's" monopolization of the Seniors contest? The
PW-5's monopolization of the World Class? ....

JJ Sinclair wrote:

Have you considered getting an unseeded "ringer" to register for you? You
then fly "co-pilot" in your two seater and the "ringer" gets a great
learning experience.

mm


There are several ways to beat this *reverse seeding* thing;
1. Don't offer sports class (Minden)
2. Get a *ringer* to use as the named pilot.
3. KS is working on a *creative alternative* to region 9's monopolization of
entry positions.

Since it is a Region 9 contest, shouldn't Region 9 be entitled to
monopolize the entry positions?

JJ Sinclair

(Brian Case) wrote in message . com...
(Andy Durbin) wrote in message . com...
Will someone please explain why the subject of "reverse seeding" for
the Region 9 contest at Parowan keeps coming up. Regionals are
Regionals, and Regionals are for the contest pilots that live in the
region. Others are welcome to come if the contest is not filled.
Applicants from the contest region have priority based on seeding, not
reverse seeding. Applicants from outside the region also have
priority based on seeding, not reverse seeding.

Has it ever been any different?

Is this an issue for Parowan because someone outside the region chose
to organise a regional contest there?


Andy


Well, one of the problems for those of us flying gliders that don't
have a class is that if we want to fly a contest in Parowan we have to
fly Sports Class and the reverse seeding hammers you. If I owned 3
gliders and could fly any class it wouldn 't be a problem, however
since I fly a Nimbus 3 and have to do it in Sports class, recognizing
that the handicap would keep me from winning, I am currently 77th out
of 80 current entrants.

Gary
As I understand it the reverse seeding only applys to Sports Class. If
I counted right I see 6 pilots that do not have seeding scores and
thus have a seeding score of 100 that gives them priority over pilots
with seed scores.

Of course the thinking is that sports class is the beginners class and
it really isn't fair to give highly seeded pilots spots that might
otherwise have been taken by new contest pilots.

It is unfortunate that the organisers set an overall limit of
contestents instead of limits on each class. If they had limited each
class the more highly seed pilots flying 15 meter or open would not
have been bumped by these pilots.

On the other hand these 6 new contest pilots might be among the pilots
that support soaring contests for the next 30 years.

Brian

Here's a creative solution to the seeding issue. There is no reason
that the region that organizes the contest has to be the region where
the contest is flown. Why not run the (say) "region 2 regionals" in
Parowan? As an analogy, UK pilots annually put on a "national
contest" in Spain.

Then the group of pilots who gets their act together to organize the
thing can get priority to fly it. Organizers are a much more scarce
commodity than airports.

The rules are decidedly vague. They say that priority goes to pilots
from "the region" but they do not define "the region." They don't say
you can do this, but they don't say you can't either.

John Cochrane