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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 7th 07, 05:49 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
Ramapo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5

One prototype and 4 production machines were produced. The prototype
and first 3 machines had Wright R-3350's and the last machine built
had Pratt & Whitney R-4360's. Later, the first three production
machines had R-4360's installed and were modified to the last
production machine's specs.

A truly majestic aircraft by any standard.

Paul

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 06:20:43 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2007-11-06 19:35:49 -0800, Square Wheels
said:

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:09:09 +0000, SHIVER ME TIMBERS wrote:

Square Wheels wrote:


But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft,
probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces.

I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair 215 ( radial ) or
415 ( turboprop ).

But an interesting curious question based on your comments.

Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft.

I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know.


More than I do likely; I'm not an 'aircraft-guy', I just like looking at
the pix and learning whatever I can....

My best friend was a commercial pilot until he developed pigmentary
glaucoma, a friend and colleague is a commercial pilot and has
written several books on aircraft and aircraft incidents, and my
cousin was a highly-decorated fighter pilot in Viet Nam, so I definitely
have an interest, just no particular talent for understanding it all that
well......

But, I digress.

I was certain I had seen nice CF-looking gray cargo-type planes dumping
borate and water on forest fires here, but evidently not.


The Martin Mars was in California on a spot contract. L.A. County has a
fire season contract to have a "Super-Scooper" in place for the entire
season with options to bring in additional support.
Then The California Department of Forestry (CDF) has its own fire
fighting airforce stationed at various airports throughout California,
that is supplemented by contracted big load tankers such as converted
DC7s.
Additional help comes from the US Forestry Service, Cal Fire, and the
various County, Municipal and volunteer fire services and helicopters
from the California National Guard.
The military aircraft you saw were C130's provided by the US Defence
Department after the declared state of emergency. Other military
helicopters were used by the Marine Corps to fight the fires at Camp
Pendleton.

I think they should know he

http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs...&bhfv=2&bhqs=1

but nary a mention....

Eh bien, liver and loin, live and learn,


SW




I should have been more clear on that point.

Oh I was just having a little fun too.

I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built
but it was a small number I'm sure.

And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here...


  #12  
Old November 8th 07, 04:47 AM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
RobG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5

Ramapo wrote

A truly majestic aircraft by any standard.


And a real treat to be able to see aviation heritage still being used.
Visited Sproat Lake at Easter and got to sit in one - truly magnificent.
Long may they rain. (Not reign - I know the difference!)

RobG
  #13  
Old November 8th 07, 04:30 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
John Szalay
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Posts: 518
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5

RobG wrote in
:

Ramapo wrote

A truly majestic aircraft by any standard.


And a real treat to be able to see aviation heritage still being used.
Visited Sproat Lake at Easter and got to sit in one - truly
magnificent. Long may they rain. (Not reign - I know the difference!)

RobG



One of these great planes burned and sank off Hawaii.
couple of years ago, the HURL team that found the USS Wards
Japanese mini-sub also found the remains of that flying boat.
the "Marshall Mars"

http://starbulletin.com/2004/12/14/news/story4.html



http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/HURL/

  #14  
Old November 9th 07, 03:05 AM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
SteveB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5

The US Navy only built about 6 of these Flying Boats at the end of World War
2. They were used on a freight and cargo run across the Pacific until the
early '50's then scrapped. A BC forest company bought the remaining four of
them from the scrap dealer and brought them to Victoria, B.C. in the late
'50's. One was scrapped and used for parts after being damaged in a
hurricane that hit Victoria and one crashed in the mid 60's fighting a fire
behind Parksville, B.C.. This leaves 2 of the aircraft left. These
aircraft are based in Sproat Lake near Port Alberni, B.C. They are the
largest flying tankers of their type in existence.

Steve

"Michael Huber" wrote in message
...
According to WP, a total of 6 Martin Mars were built: The first Hawaii

Mars
(lost 1947), the Marianas Mars (lost 1961), the Philippine Mars (with
Coulson), the Marshall Mars (lost 1950), the Caroline Mars (lost 1962),

and
the second Hawaii Mars (with Coulson, the one photographed).

So a total of two out of six survive, both working as firebombers for
Coulson Flying Tankers.

MH.



  #15  
Old November 10th 07, 03:16 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
Andrew Chaplin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 728
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5

"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
...
Square Wheels wrote:



But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft,
probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces.


I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair
215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ).

But an interesting curious question based on your comments.

Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft.

I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know.

I should have been more clear on that point.


Oh I was just having a little fun too.

I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built
but it was a small number I'm sure.

And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here...


"Kind sole"? Sounds fishy to me. :^)

Natural resources like the forests are a provincial responsibility under the
division of powers clause in the Constitution Act, 1867, so the provinces
concerned (B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec) maintain fleets of firefighting
aircraft or have contractors do it for them; Ontario has nine CL-415s and
Quebec has eight CL-415s, two CL-215Ts and four CL-215Ps.

The CF have neither the role nor any firefighting capability, unless you count
Griffons hauling buckets.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)


  #16  
Old November 10th 07, 03:40 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
CWO4 Dave Mann
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Posts: 282
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5

Andrew Chaplin wrote:
"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
...
Square Wheels wrote:


But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft,
probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces.

I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair
215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ).

But an interesting curious question based on your comments.

Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft.

I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know.

I should have been more clear on that point.

Oh I was just having a little fun too.

I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built
but it was a small number I'm sure.

And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here...


"Kind sole"? Sounds fishy to me. :^)

Natural resources like the forests are a provincial responsibility under the
division of powers clause in the Constitution Act, 1867, so the provinces
concerned (B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec) maintain fleets of firefighting
aircraft or have contractors do it for them; Ontario has nine CL-415s and
Quebec has eight CL-415s, two CL-215Ts and four CL-215Ps.

The CF have neither the role nor any firefighting capability, unless you count
Griffons hauling buckets.



Considering the demand for fire fighting aircraft all over the world, I
am surprised that an enterprising investor doesn't get behind a single
model, high efficiency amphibian of new design and turn out a few
hundred at a few millions a pop. Should be worth a United Nations Grant
or something.

Cheers,

Dave

  #17  
Old November 10th 07, 05:20 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
Ron Monroe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5

I guess you have to look at the sales record of the Canadair offereing to
see how that fared. How many have they sold? Did they make a profit? How did
they decide on the size? The other option would be to convert some of
Russia's big seaplanes. And, they sure would love the work, if someone would
buy them.
Ron

"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..
Andrew Chaplin wrote:
"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
...
Square Wheels wrote:

But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft,
probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces.
I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair
215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ).

But an interesting curious question based on your comments.

Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft.

I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know.

I should have been more clear on that point.
Oh I was just having a little fun too.

I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built
but it was a small number I'm sure.

And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here...


"Kind sole"? Sounds fishy to me. :^)

Natural resources like the forests are a provincial responsibility under
the division of powers clause in the Constitution Act, 1867, so the
provinces concerned (B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec) maintain fleets
of firefighting aircraft or have contractors do it for them; Ontario has
nine CL-415s and Quebec has eight CL-415s, two CL-215Ts and four
CL-215Ps.

The CF have neither the role nor any firefighting capability, unless you
count Griffons hauling buckets.



Considering the demand for fire fighting aircraft all over the world, I am
surprised that an enterprising investor doesn't get behind a single model,
high efficiency amphibian of new design and turn out a few hundred at a
few millions a pop. Should be worth a United Nations Grant or something.

Cheers,

Dave



  #18  
Old November 10th 07, 06:20 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
Robert Sveinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5


"Savageduck" wrote in message
news:2007111008312337709-savageduck@savagenet...


There does seem to be some international distribution of the
Canadair/Bombardier line, Spain has 15, Greece had 4 CL-215s, but lost one
in the recent fires that they suffered. Minnesota has two. There may be
other internation sales which Bombardier may be able to provide
information on. It seems the CL-215 & CL-415 are versitile enough to
provide justification for purchase or charter beyond some of the single
purpose firefighting tankers.


Manitoba has at least 3 CL-215s.

In 2004 I was in the south of France and watched 13 CL-215s in close
formation, no doubt flying out to battle a big blaze. Several hours later
I saw them all returning in a pretty ragged formation.


  #19  
Old November 10th 07, 06:32 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
Grumpy AuContraire[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 141
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5




snip





Considering the demand for fire fighting aircraft all over the world, I
am surprised that an enterprising investor doesn't get behind a single
model, high efficiency amphibian of new design and turn out a few
hundred at a few millions a pop. Should be worth a United Nations Grant
or something.

Cheers,

Dave



Hmmmph!

Thar' you go again proposing the economy of scale... A procedure which
is not in any guv'ment's handbook!

G

JT


  #20  
Old November 10th 07, 07:38 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
Ron Monroe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5

Here is another though, surplus Shin Meiwa PS-1 amphibians. They are a lot
larger than the Bombardier planes, and have 4 turboprops. I think Japan is
replacing them with newer SS-2s, based on the same airframe.
Ron

"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message
...
"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
...
Square Wheels wrote:



But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft,
probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces.


I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair
215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ).

But an interesting curious question based on your comments.

Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft.

I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know.

I should have been more clear on that point.


Oh I was just having a little fun too.

I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built
but it was a small number I'm sure.

And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here...


"Kind sole"? Sounds fishy to me. :^)

Natural resources like the forests are a provincial responsibility under
the division of powers clause in the Constitution Act, 1867, so the
provinces concerned (B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec) maintain fleets of
firefighting aircraft or have contractors do it for them; Ontario has nine
CL-415s and Quebec has eight CL-415s, two CL-215Ts and four CL-215Ps.

The CF have neither the role nor any firefighting capability, unless you
count Griffons hauling buckets.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)



 




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