How long to keep VOR check records?

If there are more than one owner of the aircraft, you need to keep it
in a place accessable by all partners. We have a small spiral notebook
we keep in the glove compartment that we log VOR checks in.







On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:11:15 GMT, "John R. Copeland"
wrote:


"Roger Halstead" wrote in message news
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:15:08 GMT, (Ross
Oliver) wrote:


So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

You don't have to keep them that long... Year as I remember, but why
not put them in a line in your log book instead of creating forms.
Them you'll always have them.

Just put the required information in the remarks section. It makes
the record keeping much simpler. You can still keep a formal record
if you wish. Thing is you don't have to do them every 30 days. You
only need a current check if flying IFR.

I don't bother with mine unless I have a flight coming up and then
just make sure they are current.

Roger Halstead


This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?

Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

There's no valid argument *against* keeping the VOR checks in your
pilot logbook, but I just feel my personal logbook is an inappropriate
place to keep records belonging to the airplane.

FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to keep
in my supplemental flight manual.
That strikes me as a much more convenient approach to record keeping.
I expect to see that idea used more widely, if the requirement persists.
I personally feel the VOR check is a kind of dinosaur-like requirement.
---JRC---

I operated a certificated avionics repair station for years. When we
performed a VOR calibration, at the owners request, which qualifies
for the 30 day check, it was a maintenance function and required the
417 documentation. FAR 91.171 (a) (1) is the reference. Both the
words maintained and inspect are used there. I said that it is a
maintenance record, not maintenance, as far as a pilot performed
function. My comment only referred to the fact that it does not have
to be in the aircraft. There are actually 6 ways to perform the
"check", 5 of which can be done by the pilot.


On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:40:07 -0500, "Barry" wrote:

FAR 91.417 (b) (1) says you must keep the record for 1 year or until
the work is repeated. A VOR test is actually an inspection and is
considered "work". Where you keep it is up to you. It does not need
to be in any particular place or location. It does not need to be in
the aircraft either. It is a maintenance record.

This is the first time I've heard anyone claim that the VOR check is
considered maintenance. Do you have a reference for this interpretation?

If a VOR check is considered maintenance, then we're in trouble (except for
the pilots who also have an A&P), because VOR check is not on the list of
preventive maintenance items given in Part 43, Appendix A. So if it's
considered maintenance, but not preventive maintenance, most pilots would not
be authorized to perform it.

There are several other factors that indicate a VOR check is not maintenance:

- FAR 91.171(a)(2) uses the word "checked," not "inspected," for the 30-day
checks we're discussing here.

- FAR 1 defines maintenance to include "inspections", but not "checks".

- FAR 91.171(d) specifies record-keeping requirements that are different from
those in 91.417 and 43.9 (no certificate number, for example). If the VOR
check is an inspection, then you'd also have to comply with 43.11 and include
aircraft total time in service, and the statement "I certify that this
aircraft has been inspected ..."

It seems clear to me that the VOR check is not maintenance, and thus not
subject to the requirements of 91.417.

Barry

I have pages in a notebook in the plane for VOR checks. That way I
have a record of how the VOR has been over a period of time. There's
quite a few lines on each page .. no not much space to keep them
for a while.


"Ross Oliver" wrote in message
...

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

John R. Copeland wrote:
FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to keep
in my supplemental flight manual.


One of the elements required by the FARs is the signature of the person
who performed the check. How do you satisfy this requirement?

"Ross Oliver" wrote in message =
...
John R. Copeland wrote:
FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to =
keep
in my supplemental flight manual.
=20
=20
One of the elements required by the FARs is the signature of the =
person
who performed the check. How do you satisfy this requirement?
=20

By entering my name in the "Name" data fields of the records.

FAR 91.171 requires the person making the operational check
to "sign the aircraft log or other record."
Evidently, the Apollo people feel that the data-entry of a name
is satisfactory in lieu of a longhand script signature.
---JRC---

I keep a hardbound log book (airframe) in the cockpit just for recording the
day's flight info. Before take off I write down:
Date Departing Airport Oil Level VOR checks

Makes for a nice catelogue of flights, a great way to watch oil consumption
and a handy place to put VOR checks.


"Ross Oliver" wrote in message
...

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

What trend do you see? I've never had a VOR not check within specs but the
only trend I would care about is the first time it doesn't. To the avionics
shop we go...

--
-------------------------------
Travis
"Otis Winslow" wrote in message
.. .
I have pages in a notebook in the plane for VOR checks. That way I
have a record of how the VOR has been over a period of time. There's
quite a few lines on each page .. no not much space to keep them
for a while.


"Ross Oliver" wrote in message
...

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

I can't think of a reason to keep them after they have been superceded. A
post-it note that you throw away with each new check, or fill up with 3-4
checks then start a new one, would be perfectly adequate. The record
requirement for VOR checks is kind of an anachronism, really.

"Otis Winslow" wrote in message
.. .
I have pages in a notebook in the plane for VOR checks. That way I
have a record of how the VOR has been over a period of time. There's
quite a few lines on each page .. no not much space to keep them
for a while.


"Ross Oliver" wrote in message
...

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

The record
requirement for VOR checks is kind of an anachronism, really.


How so? (I take it "anacrhonism" here means something that once was valid or
useful, and no longer is, but still must be done)

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Well, since practically everybody uses GPS, and radar coverage is
essentially nationwide now, making sure your VOR is accurate within a couple
of degrees every 30 days, and also keeping a detailed record of that, seems
a bit out of date. Kind of like making sure your buggy whip is in good
condition every 30 days.

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

The record
requirement for VOR checks is kind of an anachronism, really.


How so? (I take it "anacrhonism" here means something that once was valid
or
useful, and no longer is, but still must be done)

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)