Helicopters for civil engineering job

From: "tony"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Subject: Helicopters for civil engineering job
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:54:47 -0700

We were recently qouted for renting helicopters for a civil engineering
job. The price was high. We are therefore considering investing to run
the 2 helicopter operation ourselves.

The job would require lifting as much as 1300Kg to heights of about
2000m. The conditions would be hot and dusty.

The helicopter could be preowned however it musn't need much
maintenance work since that would require much knowledge and resources
from our part.

The helicopter we choose is the Bell 212. However we haven't been able
to find many preowned helicopter sellers and that have Bell 212.

The second choice would be the Bell 407. It might be more than what we
need for the job and thus we would be paying much more than need be.

THe availability of parts and the worldwide support system is a great
pro for Bell, especially that we would be very inexperienced and time
constrained at building a repair and maintenance unit for the
operation.



Advice is much appreciated:
Choice of helicopter
Maintenance costs
Running costs
Finding pilot and maintenance engineer
Preowned helicopter venders

Thanks

Post also to

http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=6

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: "tony"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Subject: Helicopters for civil engineering job
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:54:47 -0700

We were recently qouted for renting helicopters for a civil engineering
job. The price was high. We are therefore considering investing to run
the 2 helicopter operation ourselves.


If your loads are splitable down to 1000kg you would be much better off
with Sa315b lamas.
They are one of the finest workhorse helicopters around and though
relatively expensive to operate 'on paper' - due to all components being "on
time" rather than "on condition", in the conditions you describe at least
the lama's components will reach their O/H lives.
We operated them since '71 and what we particularly liked was when they were
miles away in the desert (Yemen, Ethiopia) you could plan when to have Time
X components on site. Rather than with some helicopters (no names :-)
waiting till they go U/S then going AOG for bits.
I don't have DOCs any more but phone Eurocopter - they were very helpful
with that sort of stuff.
For a spec see:
http://www.robertsaircraft.com/raco/sa315b.htm

Slatts

Thanks for the input.

Unfortunately the load is not splittable. Several components are,
however the heaviest unsplittable unit is 1300Kg.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the input.

Unfortunately the load is not splittable. Several components are,
however the heaviest unsplittable unit is 1300Kg.

That's a pity.
Just for reference - In the past we have turned up for jobs (Ski Lifts) only
to be told that the loads COULD have been designed to be 1000kg. So the
first time around we did the mass of smaller loads but they had called in a
Puma to do the heavy loads.
When we came back to do another one next year everything was 950kg :-)

Alas I would not be prepared to offer advice on 1300kg lift aircraft.
The AS350 B3 lifts 3,086 lbs but I don't have the graphs for altitude
performance.

Slatts

Sla#s wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the input.

Unfortunately the load is not splittable. Several components are,
however the heaviest unsplittable unit is 1300Kg.

That's a pity.
Just for reference - In the past we have turned up for jobs (Ski Lifts) only
to be told that the loads COULD have been designed to be 1000kg. So the
first time around we did the mass of smaller loads but they had called in a
Puma to do the heavy loads.
When we came back to do another one next year everything was 950kg :-)

Alas I would not be prepared to offer advice on 1300kg lift aircraft.
The AS350 B3 lifts 3,086 lbs but I don't have the graphs for altitude
performance.

The performance graphs for the AS 350B3 are available on the Eurocopter USA
website(see the AS 350B3 technical data), but it appears that 1,300kg. @ 2,000m,
'hot and dusty', is too much. EC-A says the basic 6-seat a/c empty weighs 1,232
kg., so minus 5 seats and with the 1,400kg. cargo swing, external mirror and
energy absorbing front seat (26kg. total) installed, I'm guessing it will
probably run about 1,235 kg. Even with zero fuel and assuming an OWE of 1,315
kg (i.e an 80kg. pilot), at 2,615kg the HOGE T/O ceiling is just below 2,000m
under ISA conditions. At ISA +20C it drops to 1,000m, and at +35C it's just
above 500m. For ISA+20C you'd probably be limited to just under 2,400kg. TOGW;
for ISA+35C just over 2,200kg.

Guy

"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:04:21 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:


The performance graphs for the AS 350B3 are available on the Eurocopter
USA
website(see the AS 350B3 technical data), but it appears that 1,300kg. @
2,000m,
'hot and dusty', is too much. EC-A says the basic 6-seat a/c empty weighs
1,232
kg., so minus 5 seats and with the 1,400kg. cargo swing, external mirror
and
energy absorbing front seat (26kg. total) installed, I'm guessing it will
probably run about 1,235 kg. Even with zero fuel and assuming an OWE of
1,315
kg (i.e an 80kg. pilot), at 2,615kg the HOGE T/O ceiling is just below
2,000m
under ISA conditions. At ISA +20C it drops to 1,000m, and at +35C it's
just
above 500m. For ISA+20C you'd probably be limited to just under 2,400kg.
TOGW;
for ISA+35C just over 2,200kg.

Looks like it's time to pony up for an S-64 then.

Or just pony the loads up on...ponies


--
Beav

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