Dog Fight For the Presidency

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

A witness did come forward and Trudeau paid.


Cite?


"Q: Is there some sort of hitch?

A: Well, yes, but it's a hitch for a good cause. The winner won't actually
receive the reward for himself; instead we'll be donating $10,000 in his
name to the USO. That way everyone's a winner, including GBT's tax
accountant."

http://doonesbury.msn.com/strip/bush_guard.html




CASE CLOSED: Four weeks ago, "Doonesbury" creator Garry Trudeau announced
in
his cartoon strip the "Bush Guard Service" contest: "We're offering
$10,000
cash to any witness who can definitively corroborate Mr. Bush's claim"
that
three decades before he became President, he served in the Alabama
National
Guard. "So if you served with Mr. Bush - even if only in the officers'
club - we want to hear from you right now! Why? So we can put this trash
story to rest and get back to the real issues." Well, it turns out that no
credible witness has come forward to claim the prize, so this week Trudeau
mailed a personal check for $10,000 to the USO. "We're extremely grateful
for his generosity," USO Vice President John Hansen told me yesterday. But
has Trudeau's check cleared? "Oh, I think he's good for it."

Except that according to the article, NO credible witness came forward.
Looks like your cite only proves my earlier assertion that no credible
witnesses came forward.

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

Yes, Kevin, I can perform a Google search. If you were capable of that
rather simple task you might have learned that the Trudeau prize was NOT
offered up as an individual reward. See the last of the FAQs below:


Note the following direct quotes from your own cite: "And the two
witnesses who have come forward in support so far haven't exactly
cleared things up" and "That's right, we're offering $10,000 cash! Yours
to either spend or invest in job creation." Now tell us again how he
recognized one of the witnesses as being credible? Can you point out
which witness was allegedly found to be credible by Mr. Trudeau
and Co.?


I didn't say Trudeau recognized one of the witnesses as credible, I said a
credible witness came forward and Trudeau paid the reward as specified in
the offer. The witness was Lt. Col. John Calhoun. He remembered sharing an
office with Lt. Bush and dining with him.



As to where the money was destined, it seems the ad posits two
differing claims--the one above, and the one about it going to
the USO.


Yeah, commonly referred to as "the fine print", "the catch", "the hitch",
etc.

The point is someone came forward and Trudeau paid. If nobody had come
forward to prove Bush's service he wouldn't have paid, at least not before
the election. He'd have been trumpeting "still no witness" all the way to
election day! He paid very quickly, and very quietly, after Lt. Col.
Calhoun verified Bush's service. If he hadn't the Republicans would have
lambasted him for reneging on his offer, and he'd probably be facing a
lawsuit.




http://makeashorterlink.com/?F22924488


Former Guardsman: Bush served with me in Alabama

By the Associated Press

A retired Alabama Air National Guard officer said Friday that he remembers
George Bush showing up for duty in Alabama in 1972, reading safety magazines
and flight manuals in an office as he performed his weekend obligations. "I
saw him each drill period," retired Lt. Col. John "Bill" Calhoun said in a
telephone interview with The Associated Press from Daytona Beach, Fla.,
where he is preparing to watch this weekend's big NASCAR race.

"He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He never complained
about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was doing in the Guard. He
showed up on time and he left at the end of the day."

Calhoun, whose name was supplied to the AP by a Republican close to Bush, is
the first member of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group to recall Bush
distinctly at the Alabama base in the period of 1972-1973. He was the unit's
flight safety officer.

The 69-year-old president of an Atlanta insulation company said Bush showed
up for work at Dannelly Air National Guard Base for drills on at least six
occasions. Bush and Calhoun had both been trained as fighter pilots, and
Calhoun said the two would swap "war stories" and even eat lunch together on
base.

Calhoun is named in 187th unit rosters obtained by the AP as serving under
the deputy commander of operations plans. Bush was in Alabama on non-flying
status.

"He sat in my office most of the time - he would read," Calhoun said. "He
had your training manuals from your aircraft he was flying. He'd study those
some. He'd read safety magazines, which is a common thing for pilots."

Democrats have asked for proof that Bush, then a 1st lieutenant with the
Texas Air National Guard, turned up for duty in Alabama, where Bush had
asked to be assigned while he worked on the U.S. Senate campaign of family
friend Winton "Red" Blount.

Pay and medical records released by the White House this week failed to
quash allegations that Bush shirked his Guard responsibilities. (Related
story: Bush's driving records disclosed)

The 187th's former commander, retired Brig. Gen. William Turnipseed, has
said he doesn't remember Bush ever turning up on base, and more than a dozen
members of the 800-person unit, including its commander, told The Associated
Press this week they have no recollection of Bush. Critics have made much of
the fact that the White House has failed to produce anyone who could
remember seeing Bush there.

Calhoun said he contacted Texas GOP leaders with his story in 2000 when the
issue was raised just before the November general election.

"I got on the phone and got information and called Austin, Texas, and talked
to the Republican campaign. They said I was talking to the campaign
manager," he said. "I told him my story and said I would be glad to provide
information to that effect. At that time they said ... The story is not
true. And we don't think it's got enough weight to stay out as a story.' And
they said, 'But if it does we'll call you back.' And I never heard from them
again."

Last week as the issue raged again, Calhoun sent an e-mail to the White
House offering to tell his story. "I got a response back, one of those
automatic responses," he said. It wasn't until his wife contacted Georgia
GOP officials that Calhoun's name surfaced.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Friday that the White House
was not making any effort to try to locate people who might have served with
Bush. He also accused reporters of trying to raise new lines of questioning,
beyond whether Bush served in Alabama.

Critics have suggested that Bush used his family connections to get the safe
Guard assignment ahead of thousands of others. But Calhoun said Bush never
mentioned his congressman father while they sat together at Dannelly.

"I knew he was working in the senatorial campaign, and I asked him if he was
going to be a politician," said Calhoun, who is a staunch Republican. "And
he said, 'I don't know. Probably.'"

Calhoun has not made any donations to Bush this election season or during
the 2000 season, according to campaign finance records.

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

"Q: Is there some sort of hitch?

A: Well, yes, but it's a hitch for a good cause. The winner won't
actually
receive the reward for himself; instead we'll be donating $10,000 in his
name to the USO. That way everyone's a winner, including GBT's tax
accountant."

http://doonesbury.msn.com/strip/bush_guard.html




CASE CLOSED: Four weeks ago, "Doonesbury" creator Garry Trudeau announced
in
his cartoon strip the "Bush Guard Service" contest: "We're offering
$10,000
cash to any witness who can definitively corroborate Mr. Bush's claim"
that
three decades before he became President, he served in the Alabama
National
Guard. "So if you served with Mr. Bush - even if only in the officers'
club - we want to hear from you right now! Why? So we can put this trash
story to rest and get back to the real issues." Well, it turns out that
no
credible witness has come forward to claim the prize, so this week
Trudeau
mailed a personal check for $10,000 to the USO. "We're extremely grateful
for his generosity," USO Vice President John Hansen told me yesterday.
But
has Trudeau's check cleared? "Oh, I think he's good for it."


Except that according to the article, NO credible witness came forward.
Looks like your cite only proves my earlier assertion that no credible
witnesses came forward.


Except that a credible witness DID come forward. That Trudeau paid the
reward while claiming no credible witness had been heard from only indicates
that he has little integrity.





http://makeashorterlink.com/?F22924488


Former Guardsman: Bush served with me in Alabama

By the Associated Press

A retired Alabama Air National Guard officer said Friday that he remembers
George Bush showing up for duty in Alabama in 1972, reading safety magazines
and flight manuals in an office as he performed his weekend obligations. "I
saw him each drill period," retired Lt. Col. John "Bill" Calhoun said in a
telephone interview with The Associated Press from Daytona Beach, Fla.,
where he is preparing to watch this weekend's big NASCAR race.

"He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He never complained
about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was doing in the Guard. He
showed up on time and he left at the end of the day."

Calhoun, whose name was supplied to the AP by a Republican close to Bush, is
the first member of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group to recall Bush
distinctly at the Alabama base in the period of 1972-1973. He was the unit's
flight safety officer.

The 69-year-old president of an Atlanta insulation company said Bush showed
up for work at Dannelly Air National Guard Base for drills on at least six
occasions. Bush and Calhoun had both been trained as fighter pilots, and
Calhoun said the two would swap "war stories" and even eat lunch together on
base.

Calhoun is named in 187th unit rosters obtained by the AP as serving under
the deputy commander of operations plans. Bush was in Alabama on non-flying
status.

"He sat in my office most of the time - he would read," Calhoun said. "He
had your training manuals from your aircraft he was flying. He'd study those
some. He'd read safety magazines, which is a common thing for pilots."

Democrats have asked for proof that Bush, then a 1st lieutenant with the
Texas Air National Guard, turned up for duty in Alabama, where Bush had
asked to be assigned while he worked on the U.S. Senate campaign of family
friend Winton "Red" Blount.

Pay and medical records released by the White House this week failed to
quash allegations that Bush shirked his Guard responsibilities. (Related
story: Bush's driving records disclosed)

The 187th's former commander, retired Brig. Gen. William Turnipseed, has
said he doesn't remember Bush ever turning up on base, and more than a dozen
members of the 800-person unit, including its commander, told The Associated
Press this week they have no recollection of Bush. Critics have made much of
the fact that the White House has failed to produce anyone who could
remember seeing Bush there.

Calhoun said he contacted Texas GOP leaders with his story in 2000 when the
issue was raised just before the November general election.

"I got on the phone and got information and called Austin, Texas, and talked
to the Republican campaign. They said I was talking to the campaign
manager," he said. "I told him my story and said I would be glad to provide
information to that effect. At that time they said ... The story is not
true. And we don't think it's got enough weight to stay out as a story.' And
they said, 'But if it does we'll call you back.' And I never heard from them
again."

Last week as the issue raged again, Calhoun sent an e-mail to the White
House offering to tell his story. "I got a response back, one of those
automatic responses," he said. It wasn't until his wife contacted Georgia
GOP officials that Calhoun's name surfaced.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Friday that the White House
was not making any effort to try to locate people who might have served with
Bush. He also accused reporters of trying to raise new lines of questioning,
beyond whether Bush served in Alabama.

Critics have suggested that Bush used his family connections to get the safe
Guard assignment ahead of thousands of others. But Calhoun said Bush never
mentioned his congressman father while they sat together at Dannelly.

"I knew he was working in the senatorial campaign, and I asked him if he was
going to be a politician," said Calhoun, who is a staunch Republican. "And
he said, 'I don't know. Probably.'"

Calhoun has not made any donations to Bush this election season or during
the 2000 season, according to campaign finance records.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

"Q: Is there some sort of hitch?

A: Well, yes, but it's a hitch for a good cause. The winner won't
actually
receive the reward for himself; instead we'll be donating $10,000 in
his
name to the USO. That way everyone's a winner, including GBT's tax
accountant."

http://doonesbury.msn.com/strip/bush_guard.html




CASE CLOSED: Four weeks ago, "Doonesbury" creator Garry Trudeau
announced
in
his cartoon strip the "Bush Guard Service" contest: "We're offering
$10,000
cash to any witness who can definitively corroborate Mr. Bush's claim"
that
three decades before he became President, he served in the Alabama
National
Guard. "So if you served with Mr. Bush - even if only in the officers'
club - we want to hear from you right now! Why? So we can put this
trash
story to rest and get back to the real issues." Well, it turns out that
no
credible witness has come forward to claim the prize, so this week
Trudeau
mailed a personal check for $10,000 to the USO. "We're extremely
grateful
for his generosity," USO Vice President John Hansen told me yesterday.
But
has Trudeau's check cleared? "Oh, I think he's good for it."


Except that according to the article, NO credible witness came forward.
Looks like your cite only proves my earlier assertion that no credible
witnesses came forward.


Except that a credible witness DID come forward. That Trudeau paid the
reward while claiming no credible witness had been heard from only
indicates
that he has little integrity.

Big surprise there. A liberal exhibiting a lack of integrity.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

Yes, Kevin, I can perform a Google search. If you were capable of that
rather simple task you might have learned that the Trudeau prize was
NOT
offered up as an individual reward. See the last of the FAQs below:


Note the following direct quotes from your own cite: "And the two
witnesses who have come forward in support so far haven't exactly
cleared things up" and "That's right, we're offering $10,000 cash! Yours
to either spend or invest in job creation." Now tell us again how he
recognized one of the witnesses as being credible? Can you point out
which witness was allegedly found to be credible by Mr. Trudeau
and Co.?


I didn't say Trudeau recognized one of the witnesses as credible, I said a
credible witness came forward and Trudeau paid the reward as specified in
the offer. The witness was Lt. Col. John Calhoun. He remembered sharing
an
office with Lt. Bush and dining with him.

Nice try--that article (13 Feb) about Calhoun was published *before* Trudeau
made his offer; Calhoun was one of the two "not credible" witnesses
mentioned in Trudeau's initial release.

www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/ 02/27/elec04.bush.doonesbury.reut/




As to where the money was destined, it seems the ad posits two
differing claims--the one above, and the one about it going to
the USO.


Yeah, commonly referred to as "the fine print", "the catch", "the hitch",
etc.

The point is someone came forward and Trudeau paid. If nobody had come
forward to prove Bush's service he wouldn't have paid, at least not before
the election. He'd have been trumpeting "still no witness" all the way to
election day! He paid very quickly, and very quietly, after Lt. Col.
Calhoun verified Bush's service. If he hadn't the Republicans would have
lambasted him for reneging on his offer, and he'd probably be facing a
lawsuit.

Nope, the point is that Trudeau refised to consider either Calhoun or the
lady from Alabama (the other witness who had already come forward) as meeing
his own strange criteria for credibility, and both of them had come forward
*before* Trudeau issued his challenge. There has been no mention that
Calhoun ever even *submitted* for the reward. And FYI, Trudeau was still
trumpeting that no witness had come forward when he made that presentation
to the USO.

"Four weeks ago, "Doonesbury" creator Garry Trudeau announced in his cartoon
strip the "Bush Guard Service" contest: "We're offering $10,000 cash to any
witness who can definitively corroborate Mr. Bush's claim" that three
decades before he became President, he served in the Alabama National Guard.
"So if you served with Mr. Bush - even if only in the officers' club - we
want to hear from you right now! Why? So we can put this trash story to rest
and get back to the real issues." Well, it turns out that no credible
witness has come forward to claim the prize, so this week Trudeau mailed a
personal check for $10,000 to the USO."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/goss...p-152467c.html

Or, you can take it in the words of Trudeau himself: " Alas, none of the
over 1600 entries we received qualified for the proferred $10,000."

www.doonesbury.com/strip/faqs/faq_sl.html

So, to sum it all up--you were wrong, weren't you?

Brooks

(WalterM140) wrote in message . com...

If that were true, you could name this person.


John "Bill" Calhoun.



Trudeau donated the money to the USO.


Yes, as was specified in the offer. The money was never to be paid to the witness.

Yeah, commonly referred to as "the fine print", "the catch", "the hitch",
etc.

The point is someone came forward and Trudeau paid. If nobody had come
forward to prove Bush's service he wouldn't have paid, at least not before
the election. He'd have been trumpeting "still no witness" all the way to
election day! He paid very quickly, and very quietly, after Lt. Col.
Calhoun verified Bush's service. If he hadn't the Republicans would have
lambasted him for reneging on his offer, and he'd probably be facing a
lawsuit.

Then why is the offer still posted?

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/bush_guard.html

Apparently Calhoun's dates did not jibe with the dates that Bush claims to have
been in Alabama, and the money was never paid.
Maybe he mistook The Kingfish for GWB.

"Tom Cervo" wrote in message
...
Yeah, commonly referred to as "the fine print", "the catch", "the hitch",
etc.

The point is someone came forward and Trudeau paid. If nobody had come
forward to prove Bush's service he wouldn't have paid, at least not
before
the election. He'd have been trumpeting "still no witness" all the way
to
election day! He paid very quickly, and very quietly, after Lt. Col.
Calhoun verified Bush's service. If he hadn't the Republicans would have
lambasted him for reneging on his offer, and he'd probably be facing a
lawsuit.

Then why is the offer still posted?

Maybe for the same reason oodles of webpages from thre and four years ago
are still posted.


http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/bush_guard.html

Apparently Calhoun's dates did not jibe with the dates that Bush claims to
have
been in Alabama,

Can you point to any evidence of that? No? Nobody has yet been able to
indict Calhoun's account.

and the money was never paid.

The USO did receive a check, and the contest is no longer.

Brooks

snip

The USO did receive a check, and the contest is no longer.

Brooks

Or maybe it is:
Bush's Missing Records
Reports on Missing Service Time So Far Not Found
By MATT KELLEY, AP 09/05/04 23:57 EDT
WASHINGTON - Documents that should have been written to explain gaps in
President Bush's Texas Air National Guard service are missing from the military
records released about his service in 1972 and 1973, according to regulations
and outside experts.
For example, Air National Guard regulations at the time required commanders to
write an investigative report for the Air Force when Bush missed his annual
medical exam in 1972. The regulations also required commanders to confirm in
writing that Bush received counseling after missing five months of drills.
No such records have been made public and the government told The Associated
Press in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit that it has released
all records it can find.
Outside experts suggest that National Guard commanders may not have produced
documentation required by their own regulations.
"One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not everyone
wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just wanted to fly or
maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have been better,'' said
retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head of the Air National Guard.
He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.
Challenging the government's declaration that no more documents exist, the AP
identified five categories of records that should have been generated after
Bush skipped his pilot's physical and missed five months of training.
"Each of these actions by any member of the National Guard should have
generated the creation of many documents that have yet to be produced,'' AP
lawyer David Schulz wrote the Justice Department Aug. 26.
White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said there were no other documents to
explain discrepancies in Bush's files.
Military service during the Vietnam War has become an issue in the presidential
election as both candidates debate the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Democrat John Kerry commanded a Navy Swift boat in Vietnam and was awarded five
medals, including a Silver Star. But his heroism has been challenged in ads by
some veterans who support Bush.
The president served stateside in the Air National Guard during Vietnam.
Democrats have accused him of shirking his Guard service and getting favored
treatment as the son of a prominent Washington figure.
The AP talked to experts unaffiliated with either campaign who have reviewed
Bush's files for missing documents. They said it was not unusual for guard
commanders to ignore deficiencies by junior officers such as Bush. But they
said missing a physical exam, which caused him to be grounded, was not common.
"It's sort of like a code of honor that you didn't go DNF (duty not including
flying),'' said retired Air Force Col. Leonard Walls, who flew 181 combat
missions over Vietnam. "There was a lot of pride in keeping combat-ready
status.''
Bush has said he fulfilled all his obligations. He was in the Texas Air
National Guard from 1968 to 1973 and was trained to fly F-102 fighters.
"I'm proud of my service,'' Bush told a rally last weekend in Lima, Ohio.
Records of Bush's service have significant gaps, starting in 1972. Bush has
said he left Texas that year to work on the unsuccessful Senate campaign in
Alabama of family friend Winton Blount.
The five kinds of missing files a
A report from the Texas Air National Guard to Bush's local draft board
certifying that Bush remained in good standing. The government has released
copies of those DD Form 44 documents for Bush for 1971 and earlier years but
not for 1972 or 1973. Records from Bush's draft board in Houston do not show
his draft status changed after he joined the guard in 1968. The AP obtained the
draft board records Aug. 27 under the Freedom of Information Act.
Records of a required investigation into why Bush lost flight status. When Bush
skipped his 1972 physical, regulations required his Texas commanders to "direct
an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical
examination,'' according to the Air Force manual at the time. An investigative
report was supposed to be forwarded "with the command recommendation'' to Air
Force officials "for final determination.''
Bush's spokesmen have said he skipped the exam because he knew he would be
doing desk duty in Alabama. But Bush was required to take the physical by the
end of July 1972, more than a month before he won final approval to train in
Alabama.
A written acknowledgment from Bush that he had received the orders grounding
him. His Texas commanders were ordered to have Bush sign such a document; but
none has been released.
Reports of formal counseling sessions Bush was required to have after missing
more than three training sessions. Bush missed at least five months' worth of
National Guard training in 1972. No documents have surfaced indicating Bush was
counseled or had written authorization to skip that training or make it up
later. Commanders did have broad discretion to allow guardsmen to make up for
missed training sessions, said Weaver and Lawrence Korb, Pentagon personnel
chief during the Reagan administration from 1981 to 1985.
"If you missed it, you could make it up,'' said Korb, who now works for the
Center for American Progress, which supports Kerry.
A signed statement from Bush acknowledging he could be called to active duty if
he did not promptly transfer to another guard unit after leaving Texas. The
statement was required as part of a Vietnam-era crackdown on no-show guardsmen.
Bush was approved in September 1972 to train with the Alabama unit, more than
four months after he left Texas.
Bush was approved to train in September, October and November 1972 with the
Alabama Air National Guard's 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group. The only
record tying Bush to that unit is a dental exam at the group's Montgomery base
in January 1973. No records have been released giving Bush permission to train
with the 187th after November 1972.
Walls, the Air Force combat veteran, was assigned to the 187th in 1972 and 1973
to train its pilots to fly the F-4 Phantom. Walls and more than a dozen other
members of the 187th say they never saw Bush. One member of the unit, retired
Lt. Col. John Calhoun, has said he remembers Bush showing up for training with
the 187th.
Pay records show Bush was credited for training in January, April and May 1973;
other files indicate that service was outside Texas.
A May 1973 yearly evaluation from Bush's Texas unit gives the future president
no ratings and stated Bush had not been seen at the Texas base since April
1972. In a directive from June 29, 1973, an Air Force personnel official
pressed Bush's unit for information about his Alabama service.
"This officer should have been reassigned in May 1972,'' wrote Master Sgt.
Daniel P. Harkness, "since he no longer is training in his AFSC (Air Force
Service Category, or job title) or with his unit of assignment.''
Then-Maj. Rufus G. Martin replied Nov. 12, 1973: "Not rated for the period 1
May 72 through 30 Apr 73. Report for this period not available for
administrative reasons.''
By then, Texas Air National Guard officials had approved Bush's request to
leave the guard to attend Harvard Business School; his last days of duty were
in July 1973.

"Tom Cervo" wrote in message
...
The USO did receive a check, and the contest is no longer.

Brooks

Or maybe it is:

No, it is not--what you are referring to is just another case of folks with
no real understanding of things military in general, or things Guard related
in particular, trying to make mountains out of molehills, and has nothing at
all to do with the Trudeau sponsored "reward", which was already donated to
the USO and the program was announced to have been finished.

Brooks

snip garbage