Red Baron vs. Rickenbacker?

Did the Red Baron ever engage in battle with Eddie Rickenbacker? I
have seen conflicting stories on various websites. Some say
Rickenbacker shot the Baron down, ... some say the Baron died before
Rickenbacker saw action.

Also, is it true that Rickenbacker's parents (or one of them) were
German?

Thanks,
Greg

Did the Red Baron ever engage in battle with Eddie Rickenbacker?

When I was a kid, I read Fighting the Flying Circus, by Eddie
Rickenbacker. I can't recall any of the details, but you might try
reading it. You'll enjoy it.

Also, is it true that Rickenbacker's parents (or one of them) were
German?

Swiss, I believe he said.

vince norris

On 8 Oct 2003 15:12:46 -0700, (Gregorso) wrote:

Did the Red Baron ever engage in battle with Eddie Rickenbacker? I
have seen conflicting stories on various websites. Some say
Rickenbacker shot the Baron down, ... some say the Baron died before
Rickenbacker saw action.

Never heard it suggested that Rickenbacker shot the Baron down. The
debate has been mostly whether the Canadian, Brown shot him down or
whether he was plinked by artillery.

An historian at the AFA gave an excellent presentation to a Daedalian
lunch I attended a couple of years ago describing his research for a
book which concluded that the artillery explanation was highly likely.

"Gregorso"
Did the Red Baron ever engage in battle with Eddie Rickenbacker? I
have seen conflicting stories on various websites. Some say
Rickenbacker shot the Baron down, ... some say the Baron died before
Rickenbacker saw action.

There is quite a controversy as to who brought down Manfred von
Richthofen, the Red Baron. Canadian pilot Arthur Roy Brown is generally
given credit for bringing him down on April 21,1918 over allied territory.
Further investigation points to Australian machine gun ground fire. Both
aircraft and land based machine guns used 303 ammunition and he was hit by
this type of bullet. Apparently he lived long enough to land the aircraft.
There was a special program on NOVA about this controversy. I guess no one
will ever know for sure. It definitely was not Rickenbacker that brought
him down. I don't know if the Americans ever tangled with the Red Barons so
called Flying Circus group commanded by Richthofen.

Ed Majden

It definitely was not Rickenbacker that brought
him down. I don't know if the Americans ever tangled with the Red Barons so
called Flying Circus group commanded by Richthofen.

I recall that Rickenbacker once tangled with a German aircraft that was painted
largely in red and he attributed the aircraft to von Richthofen's unit. This
was the signature color of von Richthofen's unit though only his personal
aircraft was ever painted in over all red. It is unlikely that Rickenbacker
fought von Richthofen but he might have fought one of the other von
Richthofen's or someone else in that unit.

John Dupre'

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Majden
blurted out:


There is quite a controversy as to who brought down Manfred von
Richthofen, the Red Baron. Canadian pilot Arthur Roy Brown is generally
given credit for bringing him down on April 21,1918 over allied territory.
Further investigation points to Australian machine gun ground fire.

Norman Franks wrote a fairly detailed explanation. I don't think he
has much doubt, except that there's no way Brown could have fired the
bullet that killed MvR.

And the Final Jeopardy answer is "Popkin"

Juvat

"Juvat" wrote:
Norman Franks wrote a fairly detailed explanation. I don't think he
has much doubt, except that there's no way Brown could have fired the
bullet that killed MvR.

Does it really matter who brought the Red Baron down? It's more of a
case of being at the right place at the wrong time! The NOVA program
brought out the fact that Richthofen broke his own rules following a single
aircraft back across enemy lines and not concentrating on what was going on
around him. Whether the bullet was from Popkin's machine gun or Brown's is
of little consequence. He is dead in either case.
Ed

Does it really matter who brought the Red Baron down?

It mattered to Popkin and Brown. The controversy was rather heated back then,
because many felt that no pilot was good enough to kill MvR - while Allied
pilots felt that no denizen of the mud could have possibly done it. The wounds
show upward travel, which mades the mystery somewhat less mysterious...

G

I heard once that Rickenbacker was really of German descent, although
he said at the time that his father was Swiss, because he was probably
ashamed of his heritage.
This is pretty ironic, if true. Does anyone have more recent
documentation on this?

Also, is it true that Rickenbacker's parents (or one of them) were
German?

Rickenbaker was a fascinating case. A 7th-grade dropout from the
sticks, he had to make his way in a group dominated by Yalies, and
this at a time when class was much more important in the U.S. than any
of us remember.

His father was a construction worker; he started out in life as a
teen-aged automobile mechanic, and by 1916 was an auto-racing
superstar. At 25 he was regarded as too old to become a pilot, so he
enlisted in the army and became a chauffeur on Pershing's staff.

You'll have to ask somebody else about his parentage, but the spelling
of his name suggests that his father wasn't an immigrant. More likely
it was a couple generations back.

(During World War II, we used to hear the same thing about Eisenhower.
The Germans, meanwhile, wondered if he wasn't a Jew.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

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