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#21
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
"Juergen Nieveler" wrote in message . .. "Robert" wrote: Japan? Japan has a rabid anti-nuke crowd. That seems to be changing - after Kim tested his little toy, the japanese government has been mumbling about getting their own nukes. Quickly followed by calls for his resignation. I'd say the rabid crowed is still there, just that the rest of the population is waking up to reality. Kind of like the European anti-nuke groups funded by the USSR to improve their positions in the SALT negotiations - if NATO was internally forced to give up all the sort/intermediate ranged weapons before the negotiations the Russians wouldn't have to give up anything at the table. |
#22
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
Diamond Jim wrote: "Robert" wrote in message ... "Diamond Jim" wrote in message m... [trim] Thanks a lot for the reply. Did the post-strike bases on the periphery of the Soviet Union and China include bases in South Korea, Taiwan and Japan? That's still rather "sensitive" information. I flew the B-47 and the B-52 as well as the B-58. Post strike bases were planned all around the USSR and China. That includes Europe, North Africa, the Mid-East and Asia. Some bases were planned to have fuel so the bombers could re-deploy back to North America. Many weren't "bases", just runways and I'm not sure the host countries even knew they were in our plans, While it may be "sensitive" information today, I seriously doubt that it is classified in any way. (The general knowledge, not the specific details.) As for the host countries knowledge at the time????? The fact that the US had nuke weapons, in such places as Greenland, Tiwan, South Korea, Japan, (places in mainland Japan, plus Okinawa, Chiba Jima, Iwo Jima) and a lot of other places around the world, has been know for a number of years. That the host country didn't know about it would argue that they didn't know about plans to use their runways as recovery bases either. The fact that the US had weapons at these places when the host country didn't know about it, isn't talked about because of its "sensitive" nature, but the general knowledge isn't classified while the specific details may still be. Japan? Japan has a rabid anti-nuke crowd. The US had dual-key nukes in a number of countries, but I had never heard of any in Japan. There was always a bit of a farce about these - 1 US MP and 2 host country ones watching each plane. The landing sites didn't require pre-approval from the host nation. Japan's anti nuke policy wouldn't apply to a plane that had jettisoned the offending devices. :-) During and after a strategic nuclear war diplomatic letters of protest don't rank very high. One of the more off-the wall plans I remember reading about involved the embassy marines sizing control of the airport and fuel trucks to refuel outbound bombers. This was in Iceland(?) Japan may have a rabid anti-nuke crowd but that doesn't change the facts! The US put nukes into Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan on Nike missiles, with or without the host countries permission and they weren't "dual -key" either. South Korea, Taiwan, and Chiba-Jima (a Japanese island) had short/ SNIP I'd like cites for your information. Going on my often imperfect memory, this was the order of battle for nuclear capable surface to surface systems in the Far East over the years (approx 1955 to 1975) Honest John free-flight rocket at the Division level in Korea Corps level Corporal, then Sergeant IIRC on Okinawa Lance, which replaced the above three, also Okinawa, maybe Korea (FWIW Lance has been replaced by the Army Tactical Missile System, fired from a MLRS launcher) Army level Redstone went to Germany, not the Pacific USAF Mace then Matador cruise missiles in hardened sheleters on Okinawa (A mobile version went to Germany - any make it to the Pacific?) With the exception of Lance all gone by the early/mid Seventies BYW, all these systems could carry nuclear, HE (later versions was ICM) & chemical warheads medium/ SNIP Nope All the Pershings were assigned to the 56th Missile Brigade in Germany (they might be have been classed by DOD as SRBM's, as the DOD MRBM range bracket is 1000-3000 Km) intermediate range ballistic missiles, SNIP Nope Only two US IRBM's - Jupiter & Thor - went to the UK, Italy & Turkey Back then the DOD range bracket for an IRBM was 2500 Km, today it is 3000-5500 Km Abobve 5500 Km and it's an ICBM in addition of the Nike SAM's. Iwo Jima, Okinawa, also had gravity bombs (nukes) stored there. In mainland Japan: The US Army had nuke warheads for the Nike missiles, and most likely some tactical warheads for the Honest John rocket, etc. The US Navy and USAF had several locations where they stored gravity nuke bombs, torpedoes, depth charges, and missile warheads. Probably the easiest and quickest way to confirm this, would be to do a google on the "Nike Missiles in Okinawa". SNIP Yep & got nothing I believe these were the last that the US operated in Japan. (IIRC to the 1970's) As nuke's are very likely still stored in Japan by the US Navy (and USAF ??) I don't know what google would find there. As a matter of policy, during the late 50's and into the 60's the US put nukes in a lot of different places, without the host countries (official or otherwise) knowledge or consent. This first became public knowledge in the mid- 1990's with the de-classification of information from the Cuban Missile Crisis. The knowledge that the US had deployed nuke missiles in Turkey (and Italy) was known but when information started becoming available in the mid 90's it came out that the US had circled the Soviet Union, China and North Korea with nukes. SNIP Considering that every Soviet Tank & Motor Rifle Divison had an organic FROG (equiavlent to Honest John) Battalion specfically for nuclear and chemical fire support and the higher Army echelons had Scud & Scaleboard mobile launchers, the idea of encirclement" sounds closer to "deterence" BTW as the number of US Marines stationed at a US Embassy is seldom more than a dozen, its not very like that they will be sizing any airports/tankers. |
#23
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
wrote in message
ups.com... Diamond Jim wrote: "Robert" wrote in message ... "Diamond Jim" wrote in message m... SNIP! SNIP!SNIP! I'd like cites for your information. - - - - - - I am not a damn librarian, look it up, this stuff is public knowledge, learn to do your own searches, here are just a few quick ones on this subject. If you follow the references, and do a good search you can find all kinds of documents that have been unclassified under FOIA pertaining to this and similar things. http://www.acronym.org.uk/dd/dd42/42base.htm http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB22/index.html http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/japan/okinawa/okinawa.htm http://www.nautilus.org/archives/lib...mbrella-1.html SNIP! SNIP!SNIP! Note (1): I never stated that all of the nukes and/or weapons systems in Japan and its islands were deployed and operational, many if not most were in storage (pre-positioned). The Nike missiles were, of course. Note (2): Chiba Jima, Chici Jima, Chici Shima, Chichi Shima, (or whatever is the current correct name is) etc all are meant to refer to the island that had a small US Naval presence in the Bonin Islands. It is approximately 165 miles NNE of Iwo Jima (Io Jima) and approximately 610 miles SSE from Tokyo. Probably the easiest and quickest way to confirm this, would be to do a google on the "Nike Missiles in Okinawa". SNIP! SNIP!SNIP! Yep & got nothing If you can't find pages and pages of information on this subject with a google search then you need to learn how to use it. |
#24
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
Diamond Jim wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Diamond Jim wrote: "Robert" wrote in message ... "Diamond Jim" wrote in message m... SNIP! SNIP!SNIP! I'd like cites for your information. - - - - - - I am not a damn librarian, look it up, this stuff is public knowledge, learn to do your own searches, snip a bunch of rude stuff. That was uncalled for. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#25
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
"Dan" wrote in message ... Diamond Jim wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Diamond Jim wrote: "Robert" wrote in message ... "Diamond Jim" wrote in message m... SNIP! SNIP!SNIP! I'd like cites for your information. - - - - - - I am not a damn librarian, look it up, this stuff is public knowledge, learn to do your own searches, snip a bunch of rude stuff. That was uncalled for. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Thank you. Your opinion is noted and will be ignored. I think that reply was called for. First it is easy to get the information, its public knowledge, and the information is widely available. All he had to do was type "Nike missiles in Okinawa" or "US nuclear weapons in Japan" into a search engine and hit the return key. Besides from reading his uninformed opinion, it was obvious he didn't have the slighest clue about the subject. If he had bothered to do any resurch on the subject he would have quickly found out he was misinformed. If someone can't help themselves then why should I waste my time tying to help them. BTY why should I waste my time arguing with you. The first sentence of this reply sums everything up nicely. |
#26
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
Diamond Jim wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message ... Diamond Jim wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Diamond Jim wrote: "Robert" wrote in message ... "Diamond Jim" wrote in message m... SNIP! SNIP!SNIP! I'd like cites for your information. - - - - - - I am not a damn librarian, look it up, this stuff is public knowledge, learn to do your own searches, snip a bunch of rude stuff. That was uncalled for. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Thank you. Your opinion is noted and will be ignored. I think that reply was called for. First it is easy to get the information, its public knowledge, and the information is widely available. All he had to do was type "Nike missiles in Okinawa" or "US nuclear weapons in Japan" into a search engine and hit the return key. Besides from reading his uninformed opinion, it was obvious he didn't have the slighest clue about the subject. If he had bothered to do any resurch on the subject he would have quickly found out he was misinformed. If someone can't help themselves then why should I waste my time tying to help them. BTY why should I waste my time arguing with you. The first sentence of this reply sums everything up nicely. Would it hurt you to be civil about it? Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#27
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
"Dan" wrote in message ... Diamond Jim wrote: "Dan" wrote in message ... Diamond Jim wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Diamond Jim wrote: "Robert" wrote in message ... "Diamond Jim" wrote in message m... SNIP! SNIP!SNIP! I'd like cites for your information. - - - - - - I am not a damn librarian, look it up, this stuff is public knowledge, learn to do your own searches, snip a bunch of rude stuff. That was uncalled for. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Thank you. Your opinion is noted and will be ignored. I think that reply was called for. First it is easy to get the information, its public knowledge, and the information is widely available. All he had to do was type "Nike missiles in Okinawa" or "US nuclear weapons in Japan" into a search engine and hit the return key. Besides from reading his uninformed opinion, it was obvious he didn't have the slighest clue about the subject. If he had bothered to do any resurch on the subject he would have quickly found out he was misinformed. If someone can't help themselves then why should I waste my time tying to help them. BTY why should I waste my time arguing with you. The first sentence of this reply sums everything up nicely. Would it hurt you to be civil about it? Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Your opinion is noted and will be ignored. (again) |
#28
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
Diamond Jim wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message ... Diamond Jim wrote: "Dan" wrote in message ... Diamond Jim wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Diamond Jim wrote: "Robert" wrote in message ... "Diamond Jim" wrote in message m... SNIP! SNIP!SNIP! I'd like cites for your information. - - - - - - I am not a damn librarian, look it up, this stuff is public knowledge, learn to do your own searches, snip a bunch of rude stuff. That was uncalled for. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Thank you. Your opinion is noted and will be ignored. I think that reply was called for. First it is easy to get the information, its public knowledge, and the information is widely available. All he had to do was type "Nike missiles in Okinawa" or "US nuclear weapons in Japan" into a search engine and hit the return key. Besides from reading his uninformed opinion, it was obvious he didn't have the slighest clue about the subject. If he had bothered to do any resurch on the subject he would have quickly found out he was misinformed. If someone can't help themselves then why should I waste my time tying to help them. BTY why should I waste my time arguing with you. The first sentence of this reply sums everything up nicely. Would it hurt you to be civil about it? Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Your opinion is noted and will be ignored. (again) I must agree with Dan. Would it hurt you to be civil? At the very least it will keep you from being seen as a narrow-minded, nasty, know-it-all. Oh and your note is noted and ignored. Dean |
#29
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
In article ,
"Diamond Jim" wrote: Would it hurt you to be civil about it? Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Your opinion is noted and will be ignored. (again) A simple "no" would suffice. |
#30
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B-58's targets in a nuclear war
---------- In article , "Darrell S" wrote: Some country leaders may "privately" allow our aircraft and weapons on their soil but, for political purposes, don't wish that information to become public knowledge. I don't approve or disapprove of that secrecy but.... that's the way it is. An example being Jordan. The USAF had at least a couple of squadrons of F-16s flying out of Jordan during the Iraqi invasion. But neither country would confirm it. The information leaked out later. D |
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