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Different standards ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 29th 10, 06:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
FMO
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Different standards ?

So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight

So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g

After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.

Club CFI approx 50 years old and has a non-aviation related day job
FBO CFI approx 35 years old ( day job is CFI and fly's charter for the FBO

SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.


Basil



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  #2  
Old March 29th 10, 08:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Different standards ?

FMO writes:

SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft


Personality, not age. Plus a different set of ulterior motives.

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.


That is certainly a possibility. It is, after all, a club, not a
profit-oriented business, so personality clashes are important, whereas simply
paying for a service is not.
  #3  
Old March 29th 10, 11:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 562
Default Different standards ?

On Mar 29, 1:48*am, "FMO" wrote:
So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight

So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. *Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g

After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. *Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, *the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.

Club CFI approx 50 years old and has a non-aviation related day job
FBO CFI approx 35 years old ( day job is CFI and fly's charter for the FBO

SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.F


It could be the standards for the club are different (and higher) than
those required for a BFR. Think about it this way -- I am sure you've
driven (or even flown) with people who have the right credentials, but
you would never lead your car or airplane to them.

What might be rewarding for you is to have a cup of coffee with the
club's CFI, tell him you want to be a better pilot, and ask what he
saw that concerned him. You may or may not agree with what he says,
but just maybe you'll learn something you had not thought about.


  #4  
Old March 29th 10, 11:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flaps_50!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Different standards ?

On Mar 29, 6:48*pm, "FMO" wrote:
So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight

So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. *Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g

After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. *Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, *the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.


Sorry to hear that. Just a few thoughts:
A BFR is not just a test but a review and also an opportunity to
learn. On my recent BFR I learnt several new ideas for improving my
flying that I now want to use/exploit. You should have asked him what
was wrong and what you could do to improve. It may be that he has
really high standards and doesn't want to hear even a chirp or see any
sideways drift at all. Maybe you cross controlled the approach
instead of crabbing (or vice versa) and he doesn't like that method?
How long did you keep the downwind wheel off and did you increase
aileron as you slowed? Without asking him what he expects of a PPL you
have no idea what to work on. I would have expected him to give some
comments on your first T/G and give you the benefit of proving you can
do it properly. On the other hand it might be that several areas of
the BFR were deficient and he just stated the one that he thought just
brought you below muster (did you tell him what the cross wind
component was likely to be after listening to the AWIB/ATIS -what
flaps did you select and why?). But it may be that being a CFI is the
only 'respectable' part of his life and he milks it. Go back and ask
him for a lesson so that you can improve to 'club' standards... I
don't think the BFR has to be all done in one session and if only one
bit is problematic that's all you have to redo/relearn. Talk to the
other club members and see what they are like -a club is also supposed
to be social ...

Good luck
  #5  
Old March 29th 10, 04:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
♥Ari ♥
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Different standards ?

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:48:47 -0700, FMO wrote:

So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight

So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g

After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.

Club CFI approx 50 years old and has a non-aviation related day job
FBO CFI approx 35 years old ( day job is CFI and fly's charter for the FBO

SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.

Basil


Who knows if he is blocking you? Ask him straight out. Are you trying
to keep me out of the club? What did you do wrong, explain to him that
/you/ saw nothing wrong and talk it out. This could be aircraft
related, for instance, his club wants to see landings approached in
their Archers a certain way to allow for less potential landing gear
stress.

Maybe you smelled like a donkey.

If he wants to block you, you're doomed. If they only have two slots
out of 20, then they can afford to be picky.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!
  #6  
Old March 30th 10, 01:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,924
Default Different standards ?


"?Ari ?" wrote

Who knows if he is blocking you? Ask him straight out. Are you trying
to keep me out of the club? What did you do wrong, explain to him that
/you/ saw nothing wrong and talk it out.


Approach him thaat way, and I guarantee you are blocked from that time
forward, if you weren't before.

You better be sweet, not a bitch, not one who thinks his landings are
perfect and have no room for improvement.
--
Jim in NC


  #7  
Old March 30th 10, 02:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default Different standards ?

Morgans writes:

Approach him thaat way, and I guarantee you are blocked from that time
forward, if you weren't before.


That depends on his personality.
  #8  
Old March 30th 10, 02:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
♥Ari ♥
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Different standards ?

On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:09:02 -0400, Morgans wrote:

"?Ari ?" wrote

Who knows if he is blocking you? Ask him straight out. Are you trying
to keep me out of the club? What did you do wrong, explain to him that
/you/ saw nothing wrong and talk it out.


Approach him thaat way, and I guarantee you are blocked from that time
forward, if you weren't before.

You better be sweet, not a bitch, not one who thinks his landings are
perfect and have no room for improvement.


Not what I said.

Read, engage comprehension.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!
  #9  
Old March 30th 10, 05:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
FMO
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Different standards ?


You better be sweet, not a bitch, not one who thinks his landings are
perfect and have no room for improvement.
--
Jim in NC


I know there is always room for improvement and using the FBO instructor was
money well spent.



  #10  
Old March 30th 10, 06:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 562
Default Different standards ?

On Mar 29, 11:09*am, ♥Ari ♥ wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:48:47 -0700, FMO wrote:
So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight


So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. *Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g


After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. *Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, *the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.


Club CFI approx 50 years old and has a non-aviation related day job
FBO CFI approx 35 years old ( day job is CFI and fly's charter for the FBO


SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft


I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.


Basil


Who knows if he is blocking you? Ask him straight out. Are you trying
to keep me out of the club? What did you do wrong, explain to him that
/you/ saw nothing wrong and talk it out. This could be aircraft
related, for instance, his club wants to see landings approached in
their Archers a certain way to allow for less potential landing gear
stress.

Maybe you smelled like a donkey.

If he wants to block you, you're doomed. If they only have two slots
out of 20, then they can afford to be picky.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!


In any interview, at the end it is prudent for the person being
interviewed to ask "Do you have any concerns about recommending me?"
It's an opportunity for the (using my real life expression) "hiring
authority" to raise whatever issues might be bothering him.

It should never be presented as a challenge, always as a question
seeking information
 




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