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#51
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
On Jun 9, 1:19*pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote: Le Chaud Lapin wrote: MSFS was the means by which I discovered the mechanism. If I had learned in actual aircraft, the question still would have been relevant. -Le Chaud Lapin- You never learned of trim until MSFS and you are going to design an airplane. Fabulous! Is it really necessary to understand the particular way it was done in C172 to achieve the same result? The same thing could be achieved using more electronics, less mechanics, and the controls might be entirely different. -Le Chaud Lapin- |
#52
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
On Jun 10, 4:34*am, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
On Jun 9, 10:58*am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote: On Jun 8, 10:20*am, Le Chaud Lapin wrote: On Jun 8, 11:07*am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote: For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172. What does MSFS have to do with anything. This is a pilot news group, not sim. There are sim groups out there that would be more appropriate for your question. MSFS was the means by which I discovered the mechanism. If I had learned in actual aircraft, the question still would have been relevant. And now all is clear. Cheers |
#53
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
On Jun 9, 1:19 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder wrote: Le Chaud Lapin wrote: MSFS was the means by which I discovered the mechanism. If I had learned in actual aircraft, the question still would have been relevant. -Le Chaud Lapin- You never learned of trim until MSFS and you are going to design an airplane. Fabulous! Is it really necessary to understand the particular way it was done in C172 to achieve the same result? The same thing could be achieved using more electronics, less mechanics, and the controls might be entirely different. -Le Chaud Lapin- Not knowing about trim by someone who thinks they are going to design an airplane is like someone who wants to be an electrician and doesn't understand the difference in AC and DC. It's just another example that you have no business trying to design an aircraft. |
#54
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
On Jun 9, 3:30*pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote: Not knowing about trim by someone who thinks they are going to design an airplane is like someone who wants to be an electrician and doesn't understand the difference in AC and DC. It's just another example that you have no business trying to design an aircraft. This is a false analogy. It depends on what is meant by "knowing about trim". The purpose of trim is clear, and the objective of trim can be achieved in many ways. It is not necessary to know all the ways that the objective of trim can be achieved in order to implement just one mechanism that achieves the objective. -Le Chaud Lapin- |
#55
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
On Jun 9, 11:31*am, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
On Jun 9, 1:06*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote: I think if the book said more about how it worked, there would be no misunderstanding. I think if you walked up to an actual airplane there would be no misunderstanding. -Robert |
#56
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
On Jun 9, 6:19*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Jun 9, 11:31*am, Le Chaud Lapin wrote: On Jun 9, 1:06*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote: I think if the book said more about how it worked, there would be no misunderstanding. I think if you walked up to an actual airplane there would be no misunderstanding. My first experience with trim control was neither with a book or a plane, but with the instructor. I think there are a lot of things that students are assumed to know that they do not, which can be frustrating, as there is no difficult in the concepts, but the ommission of facts, which hurts more than helps. It is the instructor's choice to determine how deep s/he should delve into the mechanics of flight. One instructor might say, "Move trim wheel up or down to relieve pressure on yoke." Another might say, "Trim wheel is connected to a trim tab on elevator, often located on one side of elevator only, and air moving across elevator results in aerodynamic force vector on tab that acts on elevator to position elevator so that point of equilibrium is reached, and such force being sufficient that you no longer need the yoke to position the elevator. As you can imagine, speed and orientation of aircraft will have some effect on force...and therefore position of elevator. Also, if only one tab, force applies asymetrically to aircraft...etc." Both these explanations are true, but one of them eliminates the need for $30 product (or $30,000 aircraft) to know what is going on. -Le Chaud Lapin- |
#57
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
On Jun 9, 8:18*pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
Both these explanations are true, but one of them eliminates the need for $30 product (or $30,000 aircraft) to know what is going on. I find that its pretty difficult to teach students to fly without the aircraft. -Robert, CFII |
#58
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
On Jun 9, 10:48*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Jun 9, 8:18*pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote: Both these explanations are true, but one of them eliminates the need for $30 product (or $30,000 aircraft) to know what is going on. I find that its pretty difficult to teach students to fly without the aircraft. That brings us full-circle to a theme that was mildly explored in another post - what utility, if any, is there in using a simulator to learn things that do not require actual flying. So here the question would be whether it is possible to understand how a trim tab works without ever having flown an aircraft. I have flown in DA-20 and Tomahawk, but I do not think actual flight would have been necessary to understand how trim tab works. -Le Chaud Lapin- |
#59
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in message news:9483664d-6897-4777-b4d4- Another might say, "Trim wheel is connected to a trim tab on elevator, often located on one side of elevator only, and air moving across elevator results in aerodynamic force vector on tab that acts on elevator to position elevator so that point of equilibrium is reached, and such force being sufficient that you no longer need the yoke to position the elevator. As you can imagine, speed and orientation of aircraft will have some effect on force...and therefore position of elevator. Also, if only one tab, force applies asymetrically to aircraft...etc." I'm glad I wasn't there the day he introduced the radio. |
#60
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Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.
Lost and Found
Found: To the village that has lost its idiot: we've found him. On Jun 9, 11:18 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote: On Jun 9, 6:19 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote: On Jun 9, 11:31 am, Le Chaud Lapin wrote: On Jun 9, 1:06 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote: I think if the book said more about how it worked, there would be no misunderstanding. I think if you walked up to an actual airplane there would be no misunderstanding. My first experience with trim control was neither with a book or a plane, but with the instructor. I think there are a lot of things that students are assumed to know that they do not, which can be frustrating, as there is no difficult in the concepts, but the ommission of facts, which hurts more than helps. It is the instructor's choice to determine how deep s/he should delve into the mechanics of flight. One instructor might say, "Move trim wheel up or down to relieve pressure on yoke." Another might say, "Trim wheel is connected to a trim tab on elevator, often located on one side of elevator only, and air moving across elevator results in aerodynamic force vector on tab that acts on elevator to position elevator so that point of equilibrium is reached, and such force being sufficient that you no longer need the yoke to position the elevator. As you can imagine, speed and orientation of aircraft will have some effect on force...and therefore position of elevator. Also, if only one tab, force applies asymetrically to aircraft...etc." Both these explanations are true, but one of them eliminates the need for $30 product (or $30,000 aircraft) to know what is going on. -Le Chaud Lapin- |
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