"normal" procedure for pop-up filing

In article ,
"Guillermo" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
S Herman wrote:
So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

That's correct. You have to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance
(i.e. to act as PIC under IFR). On the other hand, anybody can file
an IFR flight plan. You don't need to be PIC to be a data-entry
clerk.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.

Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.

rg

Ron Garret wrote:


If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.


Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.

He does if he's ALSO going to PIC under IFR as the previous post says.
He needs to meet BOTH the requirements of Safety Pilot (category and
class ratings) and those of an IFR PIC.

Of all places CDW would be the place near the NY Bravo airspace that
this would be advisable. There have been more than a few close calls
and mid air collisions related to the closeness of the Morristown,
Lincoln Park and CDW patterns.

Would you consider flying VFR squawking 1200 near CDW safe?

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Guillermo" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
S Herman wrote:
So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

That's correct. You have to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance
(i.e. to act as PIC under IFR). On the other hand, anybody can file
an IFR flight plan. You don't need to be PIC to be a data-entry
clerk.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have
the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.

Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.

To fly under Instrument Flight Rules you have to have an IFR rated pilot on
board, even if you ever enter IMC. I guess either the SP or the control
manipulator have to be IR? That person would be the PIC if flying under IFR.

: Why don't more people use flight following?

The biggest reason I've heard (and feel often enough) is that you're likely to
get "vectored" even if clear of controlled airspace. I've got a friend with a turbo
Arrow that flies along VFR without flight following right over the top of Class C and
Class B at 10500 or 11500. If you were to call up approach while doing, that, seems
like 9 times out of 10 they'll vector you 10-20 miles out of the way. Similarly if
you're skirting under an airspace... likely to get vectored further out.

It's unfortunate, since it discourages people who enjoy the freedom of VFR
from getting additional safety of traffic advisories and being "in the system."

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:

Ron Garret wrote:


If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.


Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.

He does if he's ALSO going to PIC under IFR as the previous post says.
He needs to meet BOTH the requirements of Safety Pilot (category and
class ratings) and those of an IFR PIC.

Oops, that's right. I didn't pay attention to the context of the
comment. My bad.

rg

wrote:
: Why don't more people use flight following?


The biggest reason I've heard (and feel often enough) is that
you're likely to get "vectored" even if clear of controlled airspace.
I've got a friend with a turbo Arrow that flies along VFR without
flight following right over the top of Class C and Class B at 10500
or 11500. If you were to call up approach while doing, that, seems
like 9 times out of 10 they'll vector you 10-20 miles out of the way.
Similarly if you're skirting under an airspace... likely to get
vectored further out.

There's two sides to this.

One is that if you're VFR in Class E airspace, they really don't have
any authority to vector you (I'm sure somebody will come up with some
exception). Sometimes controllers do try to do so anyway, but if you
really don't want to comply, you can just say "cancel flight
following, request frequency change" and go on your fat, dumb, and
happy way.

The other is that if you're doing something like skirting the top of a
Class B by 500 feet and the controller suggests a heading or route to
you, it might just be in both of your best interests to go along with
it. You scratch his back and he'll scratch yours. There's a lot of
heavy metal climbing out the top of a Class B. I don't want to be the
hood ornament on a 747, nor do I want to discover what the wake
turbulence of one feels like.

Roy Smith wrote:
wrote:

: Why don't more people use flight following?



The biggest reason I've heard (and feel often enough) is that
you're likely to get "vectored" even if clear of controlled airspace.
I've got a friend with a turbo Arrow that flies along VFR without
flight following right over the top of Class C and Class B at 10500
or 11500. If you were to call up approach while doing, that, seems
like 9 times out of 10 they'll vector you 10-20 miles out of the way.
Similarly if you're skirting under an airspace... likely to get
vectored further out.


There's two sides to this.

One is that if you're VFR in Class E airspace, they really don't have
any authority to vector you (I'm sure somebody will come up with some
exception). Sometimes controllers do try to do so anyway, but if you
really don't want to comply, you can just say "cancel flight
following, request frequency change" and go on your fat, dumb, and
happy way.

The other is that if you're doing something like skirting the top of a
Class B by 500 feet and the controller suggests a heading or route to
you, it might just be in both of your best interests to go along with
it. You scratch his back and he'll scratch yours. There's a lot of
heavy metal climbing out the top of a Class B. I don't want to be the
hood ornament on a 747, nor do I want to discover what the wake
turbulence of one feels like.

Yes. I've gone over the top of Chicago twice on the way to OSH. You know you
can't get an IFR routing anywhere near there, so I crossed the CBAS at 10500
VFR. I was happy to have advisories as the aluminum concentration was high. The
controller seemed to be glad I was talking and squawking, too. He did give me a
couple of zigzags, but that's better than going way out over Lake Michigan or 50
miles to the west.

Me: "Center .. Littleplane 1234 .. request"
Center: "1234 .. go ahead"
Me: "Got time to take an IFR plan for me?"
Center: "Sure .. go ahead"
(You're home free)
or
Center: "Sorry 1234 .. not right now .. you'll need to file with FSS"
Me: "Ok .. 1234 requests to leave the frequency to contact FSS"
Center: "Approved 1234 .. report when back on"
Me: "Center .. 1234 is back on and has an IFR plan in the hopper"





"paul kgyy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I was taught that, if I needed to file an IFR flight plan in the middle
of a trip, I should contact FSS first to file and get clearance, then
contact ATC. On the other hand, I hear frequent references in
rec.aviation to pilots who just contact ATC directly. Does this depend
on how busy ATC is - i.e. near Chicago contact FSS, near Moline contact
Moline approach?

A VFR flight plan is a FSS thing so they can find the bodies if
you don't show up. Doesn't go to ATC.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"Antoñio" wrote in message
ups.com...

That will guarantee you get flight following?


No, it will do what Ray wants, "pre-file your VFR flight plan with DUATS
so ATC already has a strip on you at initial call-up, just like with IFR."
Nothing can guarantee you get flight following.