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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"Quant" wrote in message om... wrote in message . .. On 1 Jul 2003 15:34:02 -0700, (Kevin Brooks) wrote: wrote in message . .. On 30 Jun 2003 18:31:07 -0700, (Kevin Brooks) wrote: (Quant) wrote in message . com... This post is specially for brooks. Hebrew: http://www.globes.co.il/serve/globes...asp?did=701548 Israel Aircraft Industries was excluded from the Airbus 380 project because of a political decision of the goverment of Israel to buy only Boeing planes by El Al. What brand of cheese do you prefer to go with that whine? Hey, turn down the billions in US dollars your nation receives each year from the US taxpayers, then you can come back and whine about losing out on this contract as much as you want So you acknowledge that "aid" to Israel is nothing but a quid pro quo. LOL! Not hardly. You need to retake that course in logic--the salient points apparently did not stick with you. I am merely pointing out that whining about your economic/military dependency upon the US and any negative impacts can easily be rendered moot by declaring you won't accept further US aid (like *that* will ever happen). American defense contractors would not be too happy if that were to happen. Israeli defense contractors will be (very happy). Friendship between US and Israel is a two way street. Yes, America will not hate Israel, like "old Europe". I'm not sure what you intended to say, but I recognize the fact that America (as contrary to Europe) is dealing with Israel fairly and without prejudice or hate. I am thankful for that and I think that the existence of the American nation is the best gift Israel and the world could get. |
#24
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(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...
(JGB) wrote in message . com... (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message The MAIN reason why Israel gets $3B in aid annually is so that US defense contactors can sell Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan $5 billion in arms annually without opposition from AIPAC, or increased Israel arms sales to China and other states we'd rather they not sell their own advanced technologies to. It IS quid pro quo, and not just based on sentiments. Come now. We were providing extensive monetary aid to Israel before we started selling major/modern arms to the neighboring Arabs. Israel did get mostly civilian aid to help Israel integrate millions of Jewish immigrants, but it was relatively little compared to the aid that began to flow after the Six Day War when Israel proved its capability of standing up to the SOviet Union, and Johnson saw Israel as a potential asset. The US arms embargo to BOTH sides then was effectively jettisoned, allowing for the US to become the major armorer of both sides in the conflict. From what I can recall, israel held out quite firmly for a significant aid increase and additional one-time funds (i.e., paying for new airbases to replace those lost when they gave up the Sinai) before they would agree to sign the peace treaty with Egypt (Carter being oh-so-willing to pay that tribute in return for his moment of glory). I can understand why Israel, which had been pressured THREE TIMES since 1948 to repeatedly return the Sinai to Egypt, including the oil fields that Israel had developed the last time to get US compensation, but for the life of me I can't understand the $2.8 B annual tribute to Egypt which received from Israel a much improved Sinai! Not only does Israel lost strategic depth and costly infrastructure, but its own US aid is offset by a similar amount of aid to Egypt. Can you explain to me the rationale, or how Israel gained in that "bargain?" The Egyptian army today, thanks to US training and arms, is far more dangerous than it ever was under SOviet tutelage. |
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On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:50:00 -0400 Peter Kemp
wrote: :On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote: (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... : Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and : sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while : simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One : hell of a two way street you got there. :1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and :hurting the Israeli industries. :Ten why does Israel accept it? Is the government really that stupid? It allows the Israeli government to defer hard choices. And, yes, it is stupid. :Or are they grateful for the aid in filling a big hole in their :budget? Some are. Some aren't, because making the hard choice would be much more beneficial in the long term and thus accepting the money ends up hurting. :2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily :subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price :and in many cases in quality. :And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that :are "inferior" and "more expensive". False. Of course you can attempt to prove me wrong by supplying examples, but supplying proof is rarely the interest of the typical Holocaust denier. : Again, is Israel really that :stupid or are you missing something. Could be. :Something doesn't gel here. If Israel would be better off in terms of :cost and quality without the aid, then why take it? It allows the Israeli government to defer making hard choices. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com |
#26
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Peter Kemp wrote in message . ..
On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote: (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One hell of a two way street you got there. 1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and hurting the Israeli industries. Ten why does Israel accept it? Is the government really that stupid? Or are they grateful for the aid in filling a big hole in their budget? 2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price and in many cases in quality. And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that are "inferior" and "more expensive". Again, is Israel really that stupid or are you missing something. I also recommand you too take a look at the following sites: http://www.iai.co.il/ http://www.rafael.co.il/ http://www.elbit.co.il/products11.htm and here is a small message apearing now on Rafael site's frontpage: "U.S. Air Force upgrades 47 targeting pods to Litening AT; completes integration of Litening ER on F-16 Block 40, 50." IAI, Elbit, (and soon Rafael too) are profitable companies. They couldn't present wide variety of high quality products without having customers. Something doesn't gel here. If Israel would be better off in terms of cost and quality without the aid, then why take it? |
#27
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On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:01:12 +0300, Binyamin Dissen
wrote: On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:50:00 -0400 Peter Kemp wrote: :On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote: :2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily :subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price :and in many cases in quality. :And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that :are "inferior" and "more expensive". False. Of course you can attempt to prove me wrong by supplying examples, but supplying proof is rarely the interest of the typical Holocaust denier. Holocaust denier? Me? I suggest you alter your medication mate, as I've said nothing of the sort *ever*, and I'd like to see you show one iota of evidence that I have supported such notions. As for proof, the IDF use of the M-16 vice the Galil, or the F-16 vice the Lavi |
#28
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On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 06:42:39 -0400 Peter Kemp
wrote: :On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:01:12 +0300, Binyamin Dissen wrote: :On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:50:00 -0400 Peter Kemp :wrote: ::On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote: ::2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily ::subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price ::and in many cases in quality. ::And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that ::are "inferior" and "more expensive". :False. :Of course you can attempt to prove me wrong by supplying examples, but :supplying proof is rarely the interest of the typical Holocaust denier. :Holocaust denier? Me? I suggest you alter your medication mate, as :I've said nothing of the sort *ever*, and I'd like to see you show one :iota of evidence that I have supported such notions. :As for proof, the IDF use of the M-16 vice the Galil, or the F-16 vice :the Lavi Have you compared the prices of each to the GOI? In these cases the inferior product is also cheaper. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com |
#29
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Arie,
I just saw the following headline in Globes: "Netanyahu undecided on using US loan guarantees this year". (http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/glob...702622&fid=942) and I thought that whatever the reasons he has for not using the guarantees, not using them will immediately project independence and feeling of Israeli economic strength. |
#30
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(Quant) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (Quant) wrote in message . com... wrote in message . .. On 1 Jul 2003 15:34:02 -0700, (Kevin Brooks) wrote: wrote in message . .. On 30 Jun 2003 18:31:07 -0700, (Kevin Brooks) wrote: (Quant) wrote in message . com... This post is specially for brooks. Hebrew: http://www.globes.co.il/serve/globes...asp?did=701548 Israel Aircraft Industries was excluded from the Airbus 380 project because of a political decision of the goverment of Israel to buy only Boeing planes by El Al. What brand of cheese do you prefer to go with that whine? Hey, turn down the billions in US dollars your nation receives each year from the US taxpayers, then you can come back and whine about losing out on this contract as much as you want So you acknowledge that "aid" to Israel is nothing but a quid pro quo. LOL! Not hardly. You need to retake that course in logic--the salient points apparently did not stick with you. I am merely pointing out that whining about your economic/military dependency upon the US and any negative impacts can easily be rendered moot by declaring you won't accept further US aid (like *that* will ever happen). American defense contractors would not be too happy if that were to happen. Israeli defense contractors will be (very happy). Friendship between US and Israel is a two way street. Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One hell of a two way street you got there. Brooks Brooks knows the facts but he doesn't let them to confuse him. No, I just recognize the distinct difference between "facts" and the laughable crud you have been peddling. 1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and hurting the Israeli industries. So Israel is inherently *stupid*, accepting these funds against their own best interests? LOL! I don't think so...do you? 2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price and in many cases in quality. That is a good one. Evidence of all of those rampant subsidies? And when was the last time the international market screamed for delivery of the latest *Israeli* automobiles, trucks, computers, aircraft, etc.? Instead of whining, develop your own better weapons and you don't have to worry that somebody else has better technology than yours. Which really explains why israel buys so many "inferior* US weapons, right? You apparently *do* think the israelis are stupid... Brooks |
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