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FBO's and WiFi



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 20th 03, 06:50 PM
Peter Duniho
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"Robert Henry" wrote in message
news:hpK0b.11202$uh6.8355@lakeread05...
The number of DNS queries to render any particular page can drive this

time
up quite high. Have a couple packets lost in between? ouch.


That's just silly. Especially for the typical use in an FBO, the number of
DNS queries to render any particular page is going to be quite small.
Furthermore, there's no need for DNS queries to be serviced sequentially,
and I doubt any browser would do it that way. I know that IE doesn't.

Once they get the initial page HTML, any additional Internet addresses that
need a DNS query to be resolved can and will be handled asynchronously. In
other words, a dozen DNS queries required by a single page isn't going to
take much more time than one additional DNS query would take.

$1000 a year is a bit steep for the class of service.


Only if you can have DSL or a cable modem installed. If you are in the
boonies and satellite is the fastest, most reliable Internet connection you
can get, $1000/year isn't that bad at all.

Pete


  #22  
Old August 20th 03, 06:55 PM
Peter Duniho
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"Scott Lowrey" wrote in message
om...
Since all data is transported in TCP packets (in the case of Web
traffic), there is continual send AND receive on BOTH sides since TCP
requires acknowledgement of every packet on the part the of the
receiver (remember, TCP is a *reliable* protocol). Granted, the ACK
packets are much smaller than the data packets and most of the traffic
to a web browswer is downstream, but a high-latency network like
satellite will exhibit performance degradation during *all* phases of
a connection, not just startup.


Wrong. Only if the server requires a protocol-defined acknowledgement
(where protocol is the high-level protocol, like FTP, HTTP, etc., *not* TCP)
would that happen. And that's uncommon with TCP-based protocols (since it
would totally break one of the main advantages of using TCP). Certainly
it's not the case with any of the commonly used protocols.

TCP uses sliding windows to allow constant streaming of data to occur as
long as the latency in the connection is "reasonable". That is, it will
send many packets before needing to receive any acknowledgement even for the
first packet. As long as the acknowledgements start coming in time, the
latency of the connection will NOT affect throughput AT ALL. A latency of
500ms is MORE than reasonable in this context.

Pete


  #23  
Old August 20th 03, 06:58 PM
Peter Duniho
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"Pete Zaitcev" wrote in message
news
[...]
Solstices only knock communication off for several minutes a day,
when the Sun is directly behind the satellite. It is a well known
effect.


By the way, surely you and the others mean equinoxes, not solstices? During
a solstice, the sun is at its greatest deflection from the equator (and thus
a geostationary satellite), while during an equinox, the sun is directly
over the equator.

Not that it matters in the context of this discussion, since the downtime
still is present, regardless of what time during the year it happens.

Pete


  #24  
Old August 20th 03, 06:59 PM
Peter Duniho
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"One's Too Many" wrote in message
m...
[...] The money for acquiring a broadband Internet connection for our
humble little FBO is being mostly pooled together by the local EAA /
homebuilt guys who are all quite the Linux and Apple zealots and hate
Microsoft. A Windows-only broadband connection will be totally
unpalateable to them.


Well, it's true. Religious zealots often pay dearly for their irrational
beliefs.

By the way, if they'd tolerate even a single Windows box (the cost of which
would be miniscule compared to the total cost of the Internet connection),
they could hook up whatever other operating systems they want, using the
Windows box as the network router.

Pete


  #25  
Old August 20th 03, 07:05 PM
Ron Natalie
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"Scott Lowrey" wrote in message om...
Pete Zaitcev wrote in message ...
"Lag" in the original poster's case, is actually referred to as

"latency" in the world of computer networking. Latency is defined as
the time it takes to set up and send a message,


Well, it's the overall transmission time from source to destination. The
overhead to set up and send a satellite packet isn't really any worse
than anything else, it just takes a long time to deliever.

Since all data is transported in TCP packets (in the case of Web
traffic), there is continual send AND receive on BOTH sides since TCP
requires acknowledgement of every packet on the part the of the
receiver (remember, TCP is a *reliable* protocol).


Actually, it's acknowledgement of the position in the byte stream.

Granted, the ACK
packets are much smaller than the data packets


There's no such thing as an ACK packet. A TCP packet can have
data as well as the ack for data received.


  #26  
Old August 20th 03, 07:10 PM
John Harper
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Huh? MS attempted to build a NT-based router several years ago and gave
up. There is no such animal.

OTOH a Linksys router will cost $100-200 at your friendly local Fry's
(or whatever) and will do everything required.

I suppose I should admit a bias here since Linksys just got acquired by
my employer, but actually we acquired them precisely BECAUSE they
are such a good fit to this kind of requirement. They
have competitors like Netgear who do the same kind of thing at the
same price point, so you can take this as a generic recommendation.

John

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"One's Too Many" wrote in message
m...
[...] The money for acquiring a broadband Internet connection for our
humble little FBO is being mostly pooled together by the local EAA /
homebuilt guys who are all quite the Linux and Apple zealots and hate
Microsoft. A Windows-only broadband connection will be totally
unpalateable to them.


Well, it's true. Religious zealots often pay dearly for their irrational
beliefs.

By the way, if they'd tolerate even a single Windows box (the cost of

which
would be miniscule compared to the total cost of the Internet connection),
they could hook up whatever other operating systems they want, using the
Windows box as the network router.

Pete




  #27  
Old August 20th 03, 08:18 PM
Kyler Laird
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"Peter Duniho" writes:

"Darrel Toepfer" wrote in message
. ..
500ms ping time minimum... So count on lots of lag...


Unless you are playing online computer games, you would never notice the
lag.


Call me on my Asterisk VoIP phone and let's talk about that.

Some don't network very well...


Not sure what that means.


Consumer satellite network systems have traditionally been closed. I
recall one (StarBand, I think) that had a USB interface but someone
figured out that it just went to a USB Ethernet adapter which would be
easily bypassed to get plain old Ethernet. Still, MS Windows is often
an official requirement and setting up a NATed network is not always
straightforward (because of special caching clients?).

None will work when it rains hard or the sun is in transit (summer /

winter
soltice)...


Why would you say that? The satellite data systems I've seen are based on
similar technology to that used for my digital broadcast satellite system.
At worst, data throughput drops *some*, and that's in the very worst
downpours.


The downlink is not as much of a problem as the uplink.

I have no idea why the solstices would have any effect on data transmission.
Perhaps you could explain that one.


Probably has something to do with naked people dancing in front of the
dish.

All end up with more customers than they can actually support (whether it

be
on the transponders, gateways or internet bandwidth)...


That may well be true. Though, of course, it happens with DSL and cable as
well.


Sure, but DSL and cable have comparatively huge data capacities. It
takes a tiny amount of usage to swamp a satellite uplink.

Make sure to check out some reviews of satellite services before jumping
in. Lots of people have gotten burned when they planned on using them
just like other high-speed services. (I'd still like to get one with a
folding antenna for plane camping someday.)

--kyler
  #28  
Old August 20th 03, 08:32 PM
Joachim Feise
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Peter Duniho wrote:

"One's Too Many" wrote in message
m...

[...] The money for acquiring a broadband Internet connection for our
humble little FBO is being mostly pooled together by the local EAA /
homebuilt guys who are all quite the Linux and Apple zealots and hate
Microsoft. A Windows-only broadband connection will be totally
unpalateable to them.



Well, it's true. Religious zealots often pay dearly for their irrational
beliefs.


BS. It is not about zealotry, but about using the right tool for the right
task.

By the way, if they'd tolerate even a single Windows box (the cost of which
would be miniscule compared to the total cost of the Internet connection),
they could hook up whatever other operating systems they want, using the
Windows box as the network router.


Talk about using the wrong tool for the task. You can get specialized
routers/firewalls from Linksys for next to nothing. Plug it in, and
forget about it. Maintenance free, unlike a Windows box.
Or, put an old 386 or 486 PC with Linux or OpenBSD there. You can get
such old machines for next to nothing at your local swap meet. A little
bit more installation, but certainly less maintenance than a Windows box.
I reboot my Linux firewall only when I change some hardware. My Windows
laptop needs a reboot every coupld of days...

-Joe

  #29  
Old August 20th 03, 09:51 PM
Newps
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Morgans wrote:


During solstices, or even within a few days, the elevation to the sun and
the satelite is nearly the same. As the sun transits across the sky, for a
period of time, your reciever, the satelite, and the sun are all nearly in
line. The sun; since it appears directly on the other side of the
transmitter, overcomes the transmitter signal with white noise (radiation)


Directv is unaffected. I have had my system for 7 years now. Not so
much as a hiccup excpet when there is a heavy wet snow. The snow sticks
to the feedhorn. Brush it off and the picture is back. I have turned
the TV on in a heavy downpour and checked signal strength, no change.
Always in the high 80's here.

  #30  
Old August 20th 03, 10:03 PM
Pete Zaitcev
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:10:20 -0700, John Harper wrote:

OTOH a Linksys router will cost $100-200 at your friendly local Fry's (or
whatever) and will do everything required.


You weren't following. The whole reason to deploy Windows box
is to run the driver for the DirecWay channel end with the
USB interface. It's basically the winmodem story redux.

-- Pete

 




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