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vfr on top



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 20th 10, 07:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
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Default vfr on top

Steven P. McNicoll writes:

You can do that under VFR with even broader limits on altitude and the
additional advantage of altering your route at your discretion.


But without the guaranteed services of a preexisting IFR clearance. You could
ask for a pop-up IFR clearance if you have to reenter IMC, but there's no
guarantee that you'll get it, or at least no guarantee that you'll get it
immediately. By staying IFR you don't have to worry about that. Being
VFR-on-top lets you keep the security of IFR while allowing a bit more
VFR-style flexibility.
  #12  
Old February 20th 10, 08:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default vfr on top

On Feb 20, 12:38*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll writes:
Required to accommodate IFR? *If traffic or SUA does not allow the
issuance of that IFR clearance to climb through the clouds it's not
going to be issued.


ATC cannot deny service to IFR flights once a clearance has been issued, so
once you've started your IFR flight they cannot cut you off. Flight following,
on the other hand, is at the discretion of ATC, based on the controllers'
workload and other considerations. So, while you're guaranteed to continue
getting IFR services once you've got them, if you cancel IFR and then request
flight following, there's no guarantee that you'll get it.


Read my message again.
  #13  
Old February 20th 10, 08:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 1,477
Default vfr on top

On Feb 20, 12:40*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll writes:
You can do that under VFR with even broader limits on altitude and the
additional advantage of altering your route at your discretion.


But without the guaranteed services of a preexisting IFR clearance. You could
ask for a pop-up IFR clearance if you have to reenter IMC, but there's no
guarantee that you'll get it, or at least no guarantee that you'll get it
immediately. By staying IFR you don't have to worry about that. Being
VFR-on-top lets you keep the security of IFR while allowing a bit more
VFR-style flexibility.


You're drifting too far off the issue here. What are the advantages
of IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?

  #14  
Old February 20th 10, 09:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
A Guy Called Tyketto
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Default vfr on top

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Mxsmanic wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

You can already do that with VFR w/flight following.


Not if you have to fly through clouds to get to your cruising altitude. While
you have the option of cancelling IFR once you are in VMC, ATC is not required
to provide flight following, whereas it is required to accommodate IFR.


I never said that ATC was required to provide flight following.
What I said is that you as the pilot have the option of changing your
altitude if you are VFR w/flight following, just by notifying ATC that
you are going to change your altitude.

What you said above implies that if you had FEW120 BKN200,
you'd have to pick up IFR to get through the first layer to fly VFR at
14500. That doesn't even remotely make sense.

BL.
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  #15  
Old February 20th 10, 09:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
A Guy Called Tyketto
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Default vfr on top

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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
On Feb 15, 4:21?am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Myname writes:
What are the advantages of vfr-on-top in the real world? I understand the
ifr to vfr-on-top then cancel, but what about other uses?


The main advantage is that it allows a pilot to choose his altitude at his
discretion, within broad limits, rather than request approval for every change
of altitude from ATC.


You can do that under VFR with even broader limits on altitude and the
additional advantage of altering your route at your discretion.


Thank you for this, Stephen. This completely backs up what I've
been saying.

BL.
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Unix Systems Administrator, |

Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! |
http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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  #16  
Old February 20th 10, 09:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
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Default vfr on top

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

I never said that ATC was required to provide flight following.
What I said is that you as the pilot have the option of changing your
altitude if you are VFR w/flight following, just by notifying ATC that
you are going to change your altitude.


You do not need to notify ATC that you are going to change altitude when VFR
with flight following.


  #17  
Old February 20th 10, 10:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default vfr on top

Steven P. McNicoll writes:

You're drifting too far off the issue here. What are the advantages
of IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?


VFR-on-top is still flight under IFR. Cancelling IFR and switching to VFR is
not. If you anticipate that some remaining portion of the flight will require
IFR, it makes sense to remain under IFR with VFR-on-top, rather than cancel
it.
  #18  
Old February 20th 10, 11:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mike Adams[_2_]
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Posts: 134
Default vfr on top

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

I never said that ATC was required to provide flight following.
What I said is that you as the pilot have the option of changing your
altitude if you are VFR w/flight following, just by notifying ATC
that you are going to change your altitude.


You do not need to notify ATC that you are going to change altitude
when VFR with flight following.



It may not be a firm requirement, but it is recommended. AIM section 4-1-15 paragraph b.2 says: "Pilots
should also inform the controller when changing VFR cruising altitude. "

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...01.html#4-1-15
  #19  
Old February 20th 10, 11:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
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Posts: 721
Default vfr on top

Mike Adams wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

I never said that ATC was required to provide flight following.
What I said is that you as the pilot have the option of changing
your altitude if you are VFR w/flight following, just by notifying
ATC that you are going to change your altitude.


You do not need to notify ATC that you are going to change altitude
when VFR with flight following.



It may not be a firm requirement, but it is recommended. AIM section
4-1-15 paragraph b.2 says: "Pilots should also inform the controller
when changing VFR cruising altitude. "

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...01.html#4-1-15


So, then, definitely not a firm requirement.


  #20  
Old February 21st 10, 02:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 1,477
Default vfr on top

On Feb 20, 3:17*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll writes:
You're drifting too far off the issue here. *What are the advantages
of *IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?


VFR-on-top is still flight under IFR. Cancelling IFR and switching to VFR is
not. If you anticipate that some remaining portion of the flight will require
IFR, it makes sense to remain under IFR with VFR-on-top, rather than cancel
it.


We're not talking about operating VFR-on-top. The question is, "What
are the advantages of IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR
then cancel?" Once you cancel you're VFR in each case.

 




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