Using other freqs to communicate between planes or ground?

I've wondered if it is legal to utilize an "unused" frequency to communicate between planes or
to someone on the ground for non-critical communication?
I don't know what for, but let's say you want to talk to your friend or CFI on the ground who
might give "additional instructions" on things.
Or, another pilot close by wants to exchange some restaurant info or something.
Or maybe a flying club wants to communicate or something.

Is that legal?
Is it ok?
(Let's assume your monitoring other freqs that you need to).

"Gary G" wrote in message
...
I've wondered if it is legal to utilize an "unused" frequency to
communicate between planes or
to someone on the ground for non-critical communication?
I don't know what for, but let's say you want to talk to your friend or
CFI on the ground who
might give "additional instructions" on things.
Or, another pilot close by wants to exchange some restaurant info or
something.
Or maybe a flying club wants to communicate or something.

Is that legal?
Is it ok?
(Let's assume your monitoring other freqs that you need to)

Hi Gary,

Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and 122.7
so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when returning
from the practice area or from cross countrys.

The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL
Still nowhere to go but up!

"Jay Beckman" wrote:

Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and 122.7
so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when returning
from the practice area or from cross countrys.

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.

As someone who monitors that FBO frequency in the office, we do
occasionally hear other pilots using "our" frequency to converse with
each other. It's intrusive to us because our frequency is supposed to be
for communication between our FBO and OUR pilots (students, renters,
etc.) to make our operations smoother; the unwitting pilots find it
annoying when we tell them they're on our FBO frequency, as if WE are
interrupting THEIR conversation! I don't know if they're in violation of
any regs by using our frequency to communicate, but my guess is that it
doesn't happen frequently enough to pursue it.

It is not "your" frequency. Every aviation frequency is issued on a shared
basis. If the aircraft involved are authorized on that frequency for the
purpose for which they are using it, then you are not entitled to shoo them off
the frequency.

If, however, they are using a frequency FOR WHICH YOU HAVE A CURRENT AND VALID
FCC LICENSE and they are using it for a purpose not covered under that
particular part, then you have the right to ask them to take their conversation
to a legal channel.

Tell you what. The FCC maintains a database of ALL valid licenses. Why don't
you just post here the name of the person or business that you think has a
license for that frequency and I'll go look it up and report back here?

Jim



unicate
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-As someone who monitors that FBO frequency in the office, we do
-occasionally hear other pilots using "our" frequency
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

unicate wrote:
"Jay Beckman" wrote:


Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and 122.7
so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when returning
from the practice area or from cross countrys.

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.


As someone who monitors that FBO frequency in the office, we do
occasionally hear other pilots using "our" frequency to converse with
each other. It's intrusive to us because our frequency is supposed to be
for communication between our FBO and OUR pilots (students, renters,
etc.) to make our operations smoother; the unwitting pilots find it
annoying when we tell them they're on our FBO frequency, as if WE are
interrupting THEIR conversation! I don't know if they're in violation of
any regs by using our frequency to communicate, but my guess is that it
doesn't happen frequently enough to pursue it.

Given the small amount/number of frequencies, I doubt that you have
exclusive use of YOUR frequency. There should be air to air frequencies
and Multicom (122.9) for air to ground that should be used for such
purposes that the "unwitting pilots" are using them for, but that being
said I doubt that any FBO has standing to claim a frequency for
exclusive use.

Dave

Dave S wrote:

Given the small amount/number of frequencies, I doubt that you have
exclusive use of YOUR frequency.

I put the word "our" when mentioning the frequency in quotation marks
because I *don't* know if it is registered to our FBO with the FCC ...
it is on all our documentation as our "base station" frequency, and it
is also listed in the Flight Guide (which I realize doesn't necessarily
mean anything).

There should be air to air frequencies
and Multicom (122.9) for air to ground that should be used for such
purposes that the "unwitting pilots" are using them for, but that being
said I doubt that any FBO has standing to claim a frequency for
exclusive use.

Maybe my term "unwitting pilots" was out of line...I expect a pilot from
out of the area may not know it's used for our FBO without having
specifically looked at our info. And no, we don't try to "shoo them off"
when we hear them; however, we do tell them that they are chatting on
our aircraft-to-FBO frequency. I've yet to hear any conversation on that
frequency *between aircraft not from our FBO* that consists of anything
other than "hey Bill, what time did your wife say you had to be back
today?" or "I'm over Dead Tree Road, where are you?" ... and when we
tell them they're on an FBO frequency, they pretty much tell us to
"f@#$-off" too, just as another poster said.

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:5Oyfd.18870$SW3.479@fed1read01...
Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and
122.7 so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when
returning from the practice area or from cross countrys.

Not sure what you mean by "the FBO squeezes 122.775 in". 122.775 is a
frequency specifically assigned by the FCC to "Aircraft (Air carrier and
Private)" and to "Aviation support". That is, it's a frequency reserved for
communication between planes and FBOs (among other things), and would have
been granted to the FBO for that purpose (another FBO at the same airport
would have to use a different frequency).

The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

The regulations don't say anything about 122.85 being usable as an
air-to-air frequency. Who told you that 122.85 is approved for use as the
"practice area" frequency? Is that published somewhere?

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.

It is definitely a good thing to know the frequencies for FBOs.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:5Oyfd.18870$SW3.479@fed1read01...
Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and
122.7 so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when
returning from the practice area or from cross countrys.

Not sure what you mean by "the FBO squeezes 122.775 in". 122.775 is a
frequency specifically assigned by the FCC to "Aircraft (Air carrier and
Private)" and to "Aviation support". That is, it's a frequency reserved
for communication between planes and FBOs (among other things), and would
have been granted to the FBO for that purpose (another FBO at the same
airport would have to use a different frequency).

Peter,

Didn't realize that 122.775 was tied to a specific FBO. But now that you
mention it, I've never heard anyone else ever use it, so thanks for
clarifying that. I used the term "squeezed" just to point out that it falls
between the freqs used at nearby airports.


The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

The regulations don't say anything about 122.85 being usable as an
air-to-air frequency. Who told you that 122.85 is approved for use as the
"practice area" frequency? Is that published somewhere?


Can't say for sure that it's published in the official FCC/FAA sense but:

The flight school where I trained prints it on the same flipcard that has an
airport diagram with reminders for the tower frequency split, ground, ATIS,
unicom, PHX approach, and the above mentioned 122.775 if you need to hail
the FBO.

It must be printed on lots of things since I hear planes from Chandler,
Stellar Airpark, Williams Gateway and Falcon Field routinely declare where
they are in relation to known landmarks, their current altitude, direction
of flight and their intentions (PP maneuvers, simulated engine failure,
ground ref maneuvers, returning to xxx airport, etc...) There is some
"chatting" occasionaly when one plane thinks they might cross paths with
another and wants to be totally sure of the location or intentions of
another.

In the NE practice area (primarily used by FBOs at Scottsdale and Deer
Valley), they use 122.75.

Don't know about the northwest side of town.

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.

It is definitely a good thing to know the frequencies for FBOs.

Agreed. That was a specific detail which I overlooked on my long solo XC
(cause for a bit of "clenching") but the ground control folks at Yuma were
kind enough to provide it when I told them the specific FBO I was headed to
to get topped off.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL
Still nowhere to go but up!

Peter Duniho wrote:

The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

The regulations don't say anything about 122.85 being usable as an
air-to-air frequency. Who told you that 122.85 is approved for use as the
"practice area" frequency? Is that published somewhere?

Check the AIM (I know it's "only" recommend and not regulatory, but
hey...), Chapter 4-1-11 Designated Unicom/Multicom Freq. Under 4-1-11 b)
2) you'll find "Other Frequency Usage designated by the FCC:

Air-to-air communications and private airports (not open to the public):
122,75, 122,85
Air-to-air communications (Helicopters)
123,025

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

"Jay Beckman"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and 122.7
-so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when returning
-from the practice area or from cross countrys.

Illegal as hell UNLESS your FBO has applied for and been granted a license on
that frequency (47CFR87 sub K). Most FBOs don't want to spend the extra $50 on
a license and hope against hope the little men in the antenna van don't pop them
$10K a day for the privilege.


-
-The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
-you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

122.85 is also authorized under subparts H and K, but only upon a showing of
need and the requisite application and fees.

So the old question goes, "Who is it going to hurt, and who is going to catch
me?" The same folks who will be hurt and who will catch you if you don't
maintain currency and carry passengers, fly without a flight review, with an
expired medical, and all that good stuff.

Jim

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com