Paraglider pilot missing in eastern Nevada

On 8/28/2020 6:43 PM, 2G wrote:
On Friday, August 28, 2020 at 4:06:57 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
On 8/28/2020 3:55 PM, 2G wrote:
On Friday, August 28, 2020 at 6:37:52 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
Snip...
Rhetorical comment: "Geez, Tom. Short on chill pills? Do you *enjoy*
coming across as obtuse?"

Hopefully this ends well...though - I infer - with each day it seems
less likely. Infer? Just me, I guess...

cf: "...the crash he was certainly involved in." Certainly?

Seems to me, the situation is serious enough without indulging in
"terminal public speculation." Best wishes for Mr. Johnston, his family,
and friends.

Bob W.


Gee Bob, so you THINK the guy landed uneventfully and DIDN'T crash? Maybe
YOU need a chill pill. His last reported position by his InReach was at
14,000 ft with NO subsequent fixes. In other words, device was damaged
beyond use. Sounds like a crash to me.


Keep digging that hole, Tom. Nowhere did I state what I think may or may not
have happened. I'll simply note here - my last post on this unfortunate topic
- you're doing well at justifying your initial speculation by now bringing in
subsequent info (apparently) unknown at the time of that initial post (to you,
so I infer, or you would have mentioned it, not leaving it to another poster
to do so). I'm reminded of my school bus driving days when reasoning with
unruly kids.

Bob W.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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"The “leading theory� for rescuers is that the Garmin InReach was in freefall when it sent its last trackpoint. Its groundspeed was only 2.4mph, which is “too slow for thermalling or reserve drift,� given the wind."

https://xcmag.com/news/james-kiwi-jo...ing-in-nevada/

official search suspended

https://xcmag.com/news/kiwi-johnston...rch-suspended/

Boggs

On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 7:19:08 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
"The “leading theory� for rescuers is that the Garmin InReach was in freefall when it sent its last trackpoint. Its groundspeed was only 2.4mph, which is “too slow for thermalling or reserve drift,� given the wind."

https://xcmag.com/news/james-kiwi-jo...ing-in-nevada/

official search suspended

https://xcmag.com/news/kiwi-johnston...rch-suspended/

Boggs

The idea that Johnston "dropped" his InReach is, at best, very wishful thinking. More likely was it was a valid fix and he had reversed direction into the headwind. He traveled some 50 miles in 3 hours; how far could he go in the 10 min between fixes? A mile?
Finding these bodies out in the vast areas of Nevada is daunting. He had an InReach, which puts him in the minority of most of these idiots, yet they still couldn't find his body. Without the InReach fix they would have just thrown up their hands and given up.

The end of InReach fixes may be unrelated to his actual accident. Complexity is a regular feature of accidents. The assumption that the end of transmissions is the same event as his accident may be why the search has failed. He may have flown a long way toward Wendover or wherever the conditions looked good without a working tracker.

Nevada is not unusually rugged. The search area images show typical western Basin and Range terrain. If he was in a vertical decent/freefall at the last fix, then the search area would be tiny, and he would have been found right away.

Tom you realize you don’t know what you talking about? Paragliders fly much faster and farther than you think. In fact some of these guys often fly 300-500km in paragliders.
Also the safety record of “these idiots� as you call them is in fact better than gliders. There are many more paraglider pilots and paraglider flights than sailplanes, with lower fatality rate. Sure they get injured much more often, but most of their accidents are survivable. We lost more glider pilots in Nevada than paraglider pilots. They certainly carry a lot of water with them, and can easily land on any dirt road and walk. And since many of them are younger and in better shape than many of us, they can walk out 20+ miles to the nearest road. They fly with 2M ham radios which reaches far more than “few miles� I believe further than our hand held radios, and can also use ham relays and other technologies. And most of them fly with trackers.
Perhaps non soaring pilots can make judgments on anyone who chose to fly light aircrafts without engines in the middle of nowhere, but not us.

Ramy

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:22:05 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Tom you realize you don’t know what you talking about? Paragliders fly much faster and farther than you think. In fact some of these guys often fly 300-500km in paragliders.
Also the safety record of “these idiots� as you call them is in fact better than gliders. There are many more paraglider pilots and paraglider flights than sailplanes, with lower fatality rate. Sure they get injured much more often, but most of their accidents are survivable. We lost more glider pilots in Nevada than paraglider pilots. They certainly carry a lot of water with them, and can easily land on any dirt road and walk. And since many of them are younger and in better shape than many of us, they can walk out 20+ miles to the nearest road. They fly with 2M ham radios which reaches far more than “few miles� I believe further than our hand held radios, and can also use ham relays and other technologies.. And most of them fly with trackers.
Perhaps non soaring pilots can make judgments on anyone who chose to fly light aircrafts without engines in the middle of nowhere, but not us.

Ramy

The authorities put in over 4,000 hours of time looking for this guy w/o success. That's TWO MAN YEARS (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...nd-paraglider). There were cu-nims in the area the day he flew, unsuitable conditions for paragliders in my opinion. This is from Wikipedia (not me):
Due to the paramotor's [same aerodynamics as a paraglider] slow forward speed and nature of a soft wing, it is not safe in high winds, turbulence, or intense thermal activity.
And:
Over the years 1994−2010, an average of seven in every 10,000 active paraglider pilots have been fatally injured

The range of the radios was estimated by his friend who flew with him that day. Ham radios are not aviation radios, so you can't communicate with other aircraft, particularly on 121.5. As you well know, 20 miles in that country can just make you that much more lost - and that's assuming they land w/o injury. I don't know how much water he was carrying, but it certainly wasn't enough for a full day (1 gallon). The guy covered about 54 miles in 3 hours, or averaged about 18 mph.

This is Oroc/Johnston's own account of looking for another missing paraglider pilot (who did survive):
https://xcmag.com/news/the-last-flig...kiwi-johnston/
So, he knew exactly how hard it is to find these guys. And his buddies waited a FULL DAY to report them missing, and, then, ONLY at the urging of an Ely glider pilot - not that it made much difference in the end.

I have done actual retrieves of fellow glider pilots in this terrain, and know how really bad it is. You may not want to judge these guys, but I am trying to save lives here. As such, I make NO apologies for these criticisms. You can do as YOU wish!

I won't fly in the desert with less than two and a half gallons of water and enough material to make and seed 10 solar stills. I spent 8 years flying in the desert and mountains. Both will kill you if you do not respect them.

Dammit Tom, you've got to stop clouding speculation with facts!

On 9/1/2020 6:30 PM, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:22:05 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Tom you realize you don’t know what you talking about? Paragliders fly much faster and farther than you think. In fact some of these guys often fly 300-500km in paragliders.
Also the safety record of “these idiots� as you call them is in fact better than gliders. There are many more paraglider pilots and paraglider flights than sailplanes, with lower fatality rate. Sure they get injured much more often, but most of their accidents are survivable. We lost more glider pilots in Nevada than paraglider pilots. They certainly carry a lot of water with them, and can easily land on any dirt road and walk. And since many of them are younger and in better shape than many of us, they can walk out 20+ miles to the nearest road. They fly with 2M ham radios which reaches far more than “few miles� I believe further than our hand held radios, and can also use ham relays and other technologies. And most of them fly with trackers.
Perhaps non soaring pilots can make judgments on anyone who chose to fly light aircrafts without engines in the middle of nowhere, but not us.

Ramy
The authorities put in over 4,000 hours of time looking for this guy w/o success. That's TWO MAN YEARS (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...nd-paraglider). There were cu-nims in the area the day he flew, unsuitable conditions for paragliders in my opinion. This is from Wikipedia (not me):
Due to the paramotor's [same aerodynamics as a paraglider] slow forward speed and nature of a soft wing, it is not safe in high winds, turbulence, or intense thermal activity.
And:
Over the years 1994−2010, an average of seven in every 10,000 active paraglider pilots have been fatally injured

The range of the radios was estimated by his friend who flew with him that day. Ham radios are not aviation radios, so you can't communicate with other aircraft, particularly on 121.5. As you well know, 20 miles in that country can just make you that much more lost - and that's assuming they land w/o injury. I don't know how much water he was carrying, but it certainly wasn't enough for a full day (1 gallon). The guy covered about 54 miles in 3 hours, or averaged about 18 mph.

This is Oroc/Johnston's own account of looking for another missing paraglider pilot (who did survive):
https://xcmag.com/news/the-last-flig...kiwi-johnston/
So, he knew exactly how hard it is to find these guys. And his buddies waited a FULL DAY to report them missing, and, then, ONLY at the urging of an Ely glider pilot - not that it made much difference in the end.

I have done actual retrieves of fellow glider pilots in this terrain, and know how really bad it is. You may not want to judge these guys, but I am trying to save lives here. As such, I make NO apologies for these criticisms. You can do as YOU wish!


--
Dan, 5J

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 5:30:42 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:22:05 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Tom you realize you don’t know what you talking about? Paragliders fly much faster and farther than you think. In fact some of these guys often fly 300-500km in paragliders.
Also the safety record of “these idiots� as you call them is in fact better than gliders. There are many more paraglider pilots and paraglider flights than sailplanes, with lower fatality rate. Sure they get injured much more often, but most of their accidents are survivable. We lost more glider pilots in Nevada than paraglider pilots. They certainly carry a lot of water with them, and can easily land on any dirt road and walk.. And since many of them are younger and in better shape than many of us, they can walk out 20+ miles to the nearest road. They fly with 2M ham radios which reaches far more than “few miles� I believe further than our hand held radios, and can also use ham relays and other technologies. And most of them fly with trackers.
Perhaps non soaring pilots can make judgments on anyone who chose to fly light aircrafts without engines in the middle of nowhere, but not us.

Ramy

The authorities put in over 4,000 hours of time looking for this guy w/o success. That's TWO MAN YEARS (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...nd-paraglider). There were cu-nims in the area the day he flew, unsuitable conditions for paragliders in my opinion. This is from Wikipedia (not me):
Due to the paramotor's [same aerodynamics as a paraglider] slow forward speed and nature of a soft wing, it is not safe in high winds, turbulence, or intense thermal activity.
And:
Over the years 1994−2010, an average of seven in every 10,000 active paraglider pilots have been fatally injured

The range of the radios was estimated by his friend who flew with him that day. Ham radios are not aviation radios, so you can't communicate with other aircraft, particularly on 121.5. As you well know, 20 miles in that country can just make you that much more lost - and that's assuming they land w/o injury. I don't know how much water he was carrying, but it certainly wasn't enough for a full day (1 gallon). The guy covered about 54 miles in 3 hours, or averaged about 18 mph.

This is Oroc/Johnston's own account of looking for another missing paraglider pilot (who did survive):
https://xcmag.com/news/the-last-flig...kiwi-johnston/
So, he knew exactly how hard it is to find these guys. And his buddies waited a FULL DAY to report them missing, and, then, ONLY at the urging of an Ely glider pilot - not that it made much difference in the end.

I have done actual retrieves of fellow glider pilots in this terrain, and know how really bad it is. You may not want to judge these guys, but I am trying to save lives here. As such, I make NO apologies for these criticisms. You can do as YOU wish!

2G, if he crashed why didn't they find him, or anything else near his last inreach coordinates? Surely there would have been a canopy somewhere? So, yes, you are speculating. As usual.

Often fly 300-500km? Often??? Sebastian Kayrouz just set the record of 501 in the US a couple months ago. Take a zero off that comment and you might be closer to the truth. I find it difficult to compare Paragliding and Hang gliding to sailplanes. Its really a different breed. That said i agree they are capable under the most specific conditions with very high skilled pilots.

DC



On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
Tom you realize you don’t know what you talking about? Paragliders fly much faster and farther than you think. In fact some of these guys often fly 300-500km in paragliders.
Also the safety record of “these idiots� as you call them is in fact better than gliders. There are many more paraglider pilots and paraglider flights than sailplanes, with lower fatality rate. Sure they get injured much more often, but most of their accidents are survivable. We lost more glider pilots in Nevada than paraglider pilots. They certainly carry a lot of water with them, and can easily land on any dirt road and walk. And since many of them are younger and in better shape than many of us, they can walk out 20+ miles to the nearest road. They fly with 2M ham radios which reaches far more than “few miles� I believe further than our hand held radios, and can also use ham relays and other technologies.. And most of them fly with trackers.
Perhaps non soaring pilots can make judgments on anyone who chose to fly light aircrafts without engines in the middle of nowhere, but not us.

Ramy