Some bad controllers

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Not always, see above. If you are flying into a towered airport, this
is true. Not all IFR flights end at towered airports. I typically
cancelled in the air when flying into N38 or 7N1, however, if the
weather was marginal or if the runway condition was unknown (winter), I
didn't want to cancel until I was on the ground. This required a phone
call. You are saying that if I didn't make this phone call and the last
controller I talked with forgot about me, I could be laying in a ditch
in the snow for hours???


Well, there's a strip in front of him showing that you were cleared for
approach but hadn't yet cancelled IFR to remind him. What would you want to
see done differently?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...

Here's where I, and I suspect many others, have the hole in our
understanding. Isn't the flight plan in some FAA computers somewhere?


It may be, or it may have already timed out.



And doesn't some record need to be deleted?


No, it doesn't need to be deleted. If it's still in the computer it will
time out shortly. Remember, you've reached the destination airport.
You're
at the end of the line. There's nobody to relay any information to.


Ok, the closest I can get to the ATC computers is what I see reported on
fboweb flight tracking. (Thanks for the explanation of the routing codes
you gave me before). Sometimes at the end of the flight it displays a
status of "Timed out". Other times "Canceled". Other times it displays
"Arrived". So what is it that a controller does to the ATC computer to
cause it to go into an "Arrived" state?

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
Newps wrote:



Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

Does the ATC controller then intiate SAR if the pilot hasn't called
in within 30 minutes or so?



You are never out of contact with ATC, how could this be a factor.


There are lots of airports here in northern PA where you can't talk to
the controller on the ground after landing.

Well a few minutes ago we were talking about landing at towered
airports. My comments were directed at those circumstances. landing at
uncontrolled fields is a different matter.




I'm real nervous now if you are telling me

that it is up to the last controller to initiate SAR if a flight plan
isn't closed by the pilot.

Yes, it is.



I always assumed some computer somewhere

kept track of open flight plans and automatically kicked something
out if one was still open at some time past the ETA.

The computer does not keep track like you think. A human controller does.





Not for IFR, just VFR.


Interesting that a VFR flight plan is more automated than an IFR flight
plan.

I didn't say that. There's a lot more automation with an IFR flight plan.

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

Ok, the closest I can get to the ATC computers is what I see reported on
fboweb flight tracking. (Thanks for the explanation of the routing codes
you gave me before). Sometimes at the end of the flight it displays a
status of "Timed out". Other times "Canceled". Other times it displays
"Arrived". So what is it that a controller does to the ATC computer to
cause it to go into an "Arrived" state?


Nothing. There is no "Arrived" function in NAS flight data processing. I
have no idea what the source for that is.

there's still room for error here that could easily be
automated into oblivion


Everything has room for error. I don't see any "room" that's more than any
other "room" for error elsewhere in the system. What do you see? What kind of
scenario can you imagine?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

That's true, but there's still room for error here that could easily be
automated into oblivion.



What's the error there's room for and how would you automate it into
oblivion?



The error potential is that a flight into a non-tower field could be
forgotten.

Automating it would simply pop up a message after 30 minutes if the
flight plan hasn't been closed via a call from the pilot after landing.


Matt

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Not always, see above. If you are flying into a towered airport, this
is true. Not all IFR flights end at towered airports. I typically
cancelled in the air when flying into N38 or 7N1, however, if the
weather was marginal or if the runway condition was unknown (winter), I
didn't want to cancel until I was on the ground. This required a phone
call. You are saying that if I didn't make this phone call and the last
controller I talked with forgot about me, I could be laying in a ditch
in the snow for hours???



Well, there's a strip in front of him showing that you were cleared for
approach but hadn't yet cancelled IFR to remind him. What would you want to
see done differently?



What happens to the strip when I close my flight plan? What happens to
it if I don't?


Matt

Newps wrote:


Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

Interesting that a VFR flight plan is more automated than an IFR
flight plan.


I didn't say that. There's a lot more automation with an IFR flight plan.

I was speaking relative to closing it and initiating SAR if needed.
Sounds like a VFR flight plan is more automated in that sense.


Matt

Teacherjh wrote:
there's still room for error here that could easily be
automated into oblivion


Everything has room for error. I don't see any "room" that's more than any
other "room" for error elsewhere in the system. What do you see? What kind of
scenario can you imagine?

Jose


I imagine a scenario where a human error (forgetfulness, which we all
experience) could allow a delayed SAR initiation, whereas a reminder
from the computer could prevent that. However, now that Steven
mentioned the flight strip still being there, I want to hear more about
how that works.



Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Automating it would simply pop up a message after 30 minutes if the
flight plan hasn't been closed via a call from the pilot after landing.


So you'd create a system for the pilot to enter his cancellation directly
into the computer via telephone, and if that didn't happen after 30 minutes
the computer would initiate a search?