Some bad controllers

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

What happens to the strip when I close my flight plan?



It goes into the discard pile.

So an action is taken. That is all I was asking about from the start.


What happens to it if I don't?



It stays in front of the controller until he acts upon it.

Just this morning I cleared an Aztec for the VOR/DME RWY 35 approach at MTW,
an untowered field. About three miles outside of the FAF I told the
aircraft, "report canceling IFR on this frequency, change to advisory
frequency approved, I have no other targets in the Manitowoc area." I last
observed his target about three miles south of the field. The RTR is
located on the field and there are no pavement areas accessible by aircraft
where communications presents a problem, so all the guy had to do to cancel
was switch back to approach frequency, he didn't have to scramble to find a
working telephone somewhere or anything like that. Ten minutes after last
observing his target he still had not cancelled, so I started looking for
him. But I didn't follow any of the book procedures for overdue aircraft, I
just called the FBO. I identified myself and told the receptionist I was
looking for an aircraft that hadn't cancelled IFR. Before I could describe
the airplane to her, she said, "Is it Aztec N1234A? He's here on the ramp."
[name changed to protect the forgetful] I thanked her and pitched the strip
into the discard pile. Had it been after hours for the FBO I would have
called the local constabulary and they would have sent a car out to see if
the airplane was there.

Now, how would you automate that?

As long as the strip is there and must be disposed of manually, then I
wouldn't automate it. It sounded from earlier responses you made that
NOTHING was done at the termination of an IFR flight. It is clear that
something is done, and that something is discarding the strip. Works
for me. It was the thought that no action was taken that had me concerned.


Matt

Newps wrote:


Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

What happens to the strip when I close my flight plan? What happens
to it if I don't?




And just to get you more jazzed up the FAA is building us a new tower
here in Billings. When we move in in a couple of years paper strips
will be a thing of the past. It will all be touch screens and cursors.
The whole agency is going down that path.


I don't care if it is paper or touch screen. I've been installing touch
screens since 1983 so I'm rather fond of them! As long as some action
is required at the completion of an IFR flight into a non-tower field,
be it pitching a piece of paper or touching a screen to delete an entry,
I'm a happy camper.


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

No. I assume the ATC computers know which airports are non-tower.


Why does that make a difference?



For non-tower airports, I'd require the controller or FSS specialist to
close the flight plan when the pilot radios or calls in.


That's what's being done now. You said that was inadequate.

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

I thought Newps said that a VFR flight plan has a means for automatic
notification of someone if it isn't closed within the tolerance. I
personally don't have a clue how these are handled.


Newps is not a reliable information source.

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

What does the controller do with the strip when an airplane lands at a
tower equipped airport?


If it's a satellite facility, he'll drop the strip in the discard pile. If
it's a tower with a colocated radar approach the tower probably won't have a
strip at all. The last strip is printed in the TRACON and the tower gets
it's information from the BRITE.



If he/she discards the strip manually, then
that is taking an action. It isn't an action to close the flight plan,
but nonetheless, it is an action taken upon completion of the flight.


So what action does close the flight plan at a towered field then?



It wasn't clear earlier in the thread that ANYTHING was done upon
completion of an IFR flight into a tower equipped airport or a non-tower
airport for that matter.


Well, I explained what was done, you apparently don't buy it. That's okay
with me.

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

What does the controller do with the strip when an airplane lands at a
tower equipped airport?

Files it.


If he/she discards the strip manually, then
that is taking an action.

It's manually filed into the little slot which is cleaned out each hour
so the traffic count can be recorded.

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:


I thought Newps said that a VFR flight plan has a means for automatic
notification of someone if it isn't closed within the tolerance.

Yes, there is. Once you open your VFR flight plan the guy at FSS will
get a message on a screen that says N123 is xx minutes overdue. Each
region sets its own parameters as to when that notification comes, never
more than 30 minutes after the filed time.

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

So an action is taken. That is all I was asking about from the start.


All the strips end up in the discard pile; arrivals, departures, and
overflights.



As long as the strip is there and must be disposed of manually, then I
wouldn't automate it.


Were you under the impression that they wouls eventually get up and walk
away on their own?



It sounded from earlier responses you made that
NOTHING was done at the termination of an IFR flight. It is clear that
something is done, and that something is discarding the strip. Works
for me. It was the thought that no action was taken that had me
concerned.


I see. You were under the impression that strips were retained forever,
eventually filling the facility and requiring construction of another.

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

I don't care if it is paper or touch screen. I've been installing touch
screens since 1983 so I'm rather fond of them! As long as some action
is required at the completion of an IFR flight into a non-tower field,
be it pitching a piece of paper or touching a screen to delete an entry,
I'm a happy camper.


A system error can also delete an entry on a screen, once paper strips are
printed they're pretty much foolproof.

As long as the strip is there and must be disposed of manually, then I
wouldn't automate it.

Were you under the impression that they wouls eventually get up and walk
away on their own?


Actually that is not required for there to be "no action" taken on a
(hypothetical) strip at a (hypothetical) facility. If the strip were abandoned
(no action), and then the cleaning crew came and swept the place (action, but
not by the FAA), the strip would (as far as ATC is concerned) have gotten up
and walked away on its own. Were this the case, the problemes alluded to would
likely occur.

Things don't work that way. But giving paper the breath of life is not the
only way things might not work the way they do, so that problems that don't
occur would. g

Jose


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