Anyone dissapointed with Oshgosh?

I'm building a wood and fabric plane and would have loved to talk to
others about their planes but there were none to be found. I looked
for manufacturers of wooden kits but only Fisher had the gonads to
show their product.
If the wood kits are as good as we are led to believe, why don?t they
show us what they have to offer? I was told by my EAA adviser, that
all I would have to do is finish the plane and show up and I would win
every award given to the wooden builder. Now I know why.
Very Disappointed
Lou

On 14 Aug 2003 17:48:02 -0700, (Lou Parker) wrote:

I'm building a wood and fabric plane and would have loved to talk to
others about their planes but there were none to be found. I looked
for manufacturers of wooden kits but only Fisher had the gonads to
show their product.
If the wood kits are as good as we are led to believe, why don?t they
show us what they have to offer?

Cost, most likely. We had a recent post that a small booth in the
swap-meet area was about $1500, and a small display booth inside the
hangars was over $2000. I don't know how much an outdoor display spot is,
but suspect it's over two grand, as well. Add in the expense of
transporting your wares and people, finding housing for your employees,
etc.

Kit-wise, the vast majority of the wood designs are small Mini-Max class
airplanes. Not much profit on each of them. Wood kits are getting rarer;
people want a lot of prefabbed parts, and that means a lot of expensive
hand-work for a wood kit.

There still are a number of wood plans-built designs out there, but how
many sets of $65 Fly Baby plans do you have to sell to be able to afford a
booth at Oshkosh?

It's just a sad truth that Oshkosh isn't affordable for the purveyors of
the small plans-built aircraft that got EAA started. The Broadhead
Pietenpol Fly-In usually happens a week earlier than Oshkosh, and it's
located in Wisconsin just like Oshkosh is. Yet you'll see dozens of Piets
at Broadhead, compared to a couple at Airventure.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
On 14 Aug 2003 17:48:02 -0700, (Lou Parker) wrote:

I'm building a wood and fabric plane and would have loved to talk to
others about their planes but there were none to be found. I looked
for manufacturers of wooden kits but only Fisher had the gonads to
show their product.
If the wood kits are as good as we are led to believe, why don?t they
show us what they have to offer?

Cost, most likely. We had a recent post that a small booth in the
swap-meet area was about $1500, and a small display booth inside the
hangars was over $2000. I don't know how much an outdoor display spot is,
but suspect it's over two grand, as well. Add in the expense of
transporting your wares and people, finding housing for your employees,
etc.

I have been going to OSH for the last 5 years, but I get the distinct
impression that the EAA is screwing just about everyone it can screw. For
instance, airplane camping and admission for the whole week runs into the
hundreds of dollars. What do you get for it? Overcrowded shower facilities
that are usually filthy and poor bus service from the North 40. That's all.
And then they have the collection box for more money when you get on the
bus... Food prices are way out of line too. At least gas was $1.99/gallon
this year - amazing what a little competition will do.

So where does all this money go? Or am I being unrealistic. Either way,
please tell me - I sure would like to know. Or is the EAA just another
greedy commercial enterprise?

-- Jim

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:19:01 GMT, "Jim Vadek"
wrote:

I have been going to OSH for the last 5 years, but I get the distinct
impression that the EAA is screwing just about everyone it can screw. For
instance, airplane camping and admission for the whole week runs into the
hundreds of dollars. What do you get for it? Overcrowded shower facilities
that are usually filthy and poor bus service from the North 40. That's all.
And then they have the collection box for more money when you get on the
bus... Food prices are way out of line too. At least gas was $1.99/gallon
this year - amazing what a little competition will do.

So where does all this money go? Or am I being unrealistic. Either way,
please tell me - I sure would like to know. Or is the EAA just another
greedy commercial enterprise?

I think it's just a reflection of higher costs, especially in fuel,
insurance, and security. It's not just Oshkosh, we've seen the same
complaints here about SnF and Arlington, and the situation is the same for
the large non-aviation events as well. The bathrooms smell bad at Safeco
Field, too....

Ron Wanttaja

I'm building a wood and fabric plane and would have loved to talk to
others about their planes but there were none to be found.

Well... the Grand Champion plans built airplane this year was a (wood)
GP-4 built by Bernie Griffin. In the ultralight area, they were working
on the wood wings of something or other, and there were a number of all
wood planes there. There was a workshop devoted to woodworking, I
believe. I saw at least two Falcos, one of them Reserve Grand Champion
from two or three years ago, and there were lots of planes that had wood
wings to go with their steel tube fuselages in the aerobatics area. Not
to mention the antiques that had wood wings.

Ed Wischmeyer

It's just a sad truth that Oshkosh isn't affordable for the purveyors of
the small plans-built aircraft that got EAA started. The Broadhead
Pietenpol Fly-In usually happens a week earlier than Oshkosh, and it's
located in Wisconsin just like Oshkosh is

This sounds more like what I want from a homebuilder flyin. Maybe if they
don't mind some "outsiders" this little get together could be promoted to
others building planes from plans or very basic kits. I don't see anything
wrong with some Piets and Tailwinds in the same gathering and maybe the Piet
owners wouldn't mind a little diversity.

I have no need of, or desire to put up with, all of the non aviatiion comercial
BS that has infested Oshkosh and don't plan to return until the ballance shifts
back to the HOMEBUILDER.

This year was my best Oshkosh experience in a long time. I stayed at home,
took the time and money I would normally have spent in Wisconsin, and worked on
my plane. Got a LOT done. All my brother got was rained on......

In article , Ed Wischmeyer
writes:


I have been going to OSH for the last 5 years, but I get the distinct
impression that the EAA is screwing just about everyone it can screw. For
instance, airplane camping and admission for the whole week runs into the
hundreds of dollars. What do you get for it?

So where does all this money go? Or am I being unrealistic. Either way,
please tell me - I sure would like to know. Or is the EAA just another
greedy commercial enterprise?

First, EAA is a 501(c)3 corporation, i.e., charitable, tax exempt.

Where did your money go? Some of it goes to keep the dues down and to
run an organization that can, on the same day, attract and impress the
Secretary of Transportation, the Administrator of the FAA, and the Chair
of the NTSB, not to mention a couple of senators and representatives --
and to help protect your freedoms to fly by working with the regulators,
not just the Congress. Then there's the free airshow, free workshops
(which include free material to practice on), the free forums, the free
portapotties, the free onsite health care, free delivery from town of
prescription medicines, and the most comprehensive set of exhibitors to
visit with, plus the work during the rest of the year to get Sport
Pilot through so lots more people can fly, the work on making aviation
gasoline available after tetraethyl lead goes away because of economic
issues. Bear in mind that the facility only does two events per year
(it's rented out to Ducks Unlimited for their annual shebang), so there
are expenses that cannot be amortized year around.

Other folks have compared prices to "comparable" events with results
favorable to the EAA.

Best advice? Get plugged in, get a volunteer job. It's lots more fun
that way.

Ed Wischmeyer, volunteer for 9 years

Well Said Ed.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

Food prices are way out of line too.

Ha ha! I just went to a state fair that smelled worse than OSH and a funnel
cake's five dollars, onion rings $4. Bitching about Fair Food is like grousing
about these young kids and their rock music. Just marks ya as an old crank.
Pack a sandwich.

Huh? I didn't see a single money box on any of the busses I took this
year...The shower facilities were just as crowded 28 years ago when I
started going to Oshkosh. I know it sounds expensive, but have you ever
gone to Disney for a whole week? I can almost guarantee Disney for a
week would be more expensive.

Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParasolAirplanes
Building RV-4
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die!

Jim Vadek wrote:

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
On 14 Aug 2003 17:48:02 -0700, (Lou Parker) wrote:

I'm building a wood and fabric plane and would have loved to talk to
others about their planes but there were none to be found. I looked
for manufacturers of wooden kits but only Fisher had the gonads to
show their product.
If the wood kits are as good as we are led to believe, why don?t they
show us what they have to offer?

Cost, most likely. We had a recent post that a small booth in the
swap-meet area was about $1500, and a small display booth inside the
hangars was over $2000. I don't know how much an outdoor display spot is,
but suspect it's over two grand, as well. Add in the expense of
transporting your wares and people, finding housing for your employees,
etc.

I have been going to OSH for the last 5 years, but I get the distinct
impression that the EAA is screwing just about everyone it can screw. For
instance, airplane camping and admission for the whole week runs into the
hundreds of dollars. What do you get for it? Overcrowded shower facilities
that are usually filthy and poor bus service from the North 40. That's all.
And then they have the collection box for more money when you get on the
bus... Food prices are way out of line too. At least gas was $1.99/gallon
this year - amazing what a little competition will do.

So where does all this money go? Or am I being unrealistic. Either way,
please tell me - I sure would like to know. Or is the EAA just another
greedy commercial enterprise?

-- Jim

--

Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParasolAirplanes
Building RV-4
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die!

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

"Ed Wischmeyer" wrote in message
...
I'm building a wood and fabric plane and would have loved to talk to
others about their planes but there were none to be found.

Well... the Grand Champion plans built airplane this year was a (wood)
GP-4 built by Bernie Griffin.

Was that the red one that was on the Sport Aviation cover? Had a brief
chat with
him. I don't understand why the original poster could find any. All
you have to do
is cruise the airplane parking area (hint, don't forget to look in the
showplane camping
area) until you come up on an owner. They're usually glad to talk to
you. I remember
spending an entire afternoon talking to Jakie Yoder about his GP-4.
*********************************************
Yes, I agree that their were wood airplanes to see, but I also see one part
of his complaint.

I have (in past years) wanted very much to talk to the owners of a specific
few aircraft, but no matter when I went by their planes, they were never
there.

I would suggest that on the cards that everyone hangs on their props, there
be a space that would say something like "times to talk to the owner", and
ask that everyone put at least one time per day that they would be willing
to be at their plane, to answer questions. I know not everyone would go for
it, but it would be nice for those that would.
--
Jim in NC--