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Multiple varios



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 15th 17, 06:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike C
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Default Multiple varios

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 10:00:02 AM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 10:12:52 AM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
I have yet to fly a glider which has electrical and mechanical variometer that display identical signal all the time. Until then i feel that both mechanical and electrical variometers give more information about the airmass than single one.


Mechanical plays hell with modern (pressure transducer type) electric on same TE circuit. In that event, the mechanical may well be giving the better information.

Results vary depending upon pneumatic impedance of your TE probe and other things...

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8



One mechanical(Sage)on a TE probe and one Westerboer STF with Electronic Compensation. Seems to be an ideal combination. Always check the Sage before I turn.

Mike
  #22  
Old December 15th 17, 06:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Multiple varios



On 12/14/2017 3:51 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:00:23 PM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
Why do so many gliders seem to have multiple varios? Is it that critical to have a back-up for this instrument? Do they often fail and leave you in "
the lurch"?

Or you simply need to buy a new toy.

Yeah, I needed a new toy so I bought a Cessna 180.Â* Its audio is louder
than my ClearNav XC vario.
--
Dan, 5J
  #23  
Old December 15th 17, 09:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
john firth
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Default Multiple varios

On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:00:23 PM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
Why do so many gliders seem to have multiple varios? Is it that critical to have a back-up for this instrument? Do they often fail and leave you in "
the lurch"?


There is only one essential instrument for VFR and it lies between you ears.
a vario is next, with a vent to cockpit static if the TE gets plugged.

BTW, which Elec varios have an audible sink alarm; the old Cambridge audio was useless in sink as airspeed noise over 60-70 kts covered the LF tone.

In 1970, I built an analogue vario-computer with audio, head up speed to fly reader, TE comp etc..and audio rising tone in lift, and broken tone louder and rising in sink. Just what I needed , but the transducers gave trouble.

John F
  #24  
Old December 15th 17, 10:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 580
Default Multiple varios

"Getting home" may well be possible if your only vario fails. Continuing to race if it fails in a contest is a lot more difficult. It's happened to me at least twice. I don't like single points of failure. The battery, battery selector switch, etc., can be one. The ubiquitous triple probe can be another another.

And, yes, the two varios do sometimes provide different insights.

Chip Bearden
  #25  
Old December 15th 17, 11:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Kiwi User
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Posts: 64
Default Multiple varios

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:24:37 -0800, john firth wrote:

BTW, which Elec varios have an audible sink alarm; the old Cambridge
audio was useless in sink as airspeed noise over 60-70 kts covered the
LF tone.

Borgelt B.40 (and probably other Borgelts as well).

SDI C3 and C4 (he says, naming varios I have a lot of time in the air
with). These have two tomes for climb/sink in climb (TE) mode and another
two for speed up/slow down in cruise (super Netto mode), but my C4
doesn't have a silent band between lift/sink in climb mode, so I turn the
sink option off because I don't need a sink noise to tell me I'm in
searching for lift in somewhat bouyant air at best glide that's just
reducing my sink speed half the dead air value.

This lack of a silent band is a bad feature, of a lot of varios including
some of the LX ones. Ideally it should default to the region between zero
sink and -2kts and its lower limit should be configurable.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie
| dot org
  #26  
Old December 16th 17, 12:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 13
Default Multiple varios

Many years ago Mario Crosina and I launched in the Central Valley for our first flight of the season. My airspeed failed immediately and Mario's vario died. We developed a new form of team flying on the spot and did a nice x-country.

I had a problem this year with my Cnav audio and discovered it was almost impossible to thermal by looking
Inside after over 30 years of listening to an audio nag. Try turning off your audio some time, hopefully you will find it has become an essential item when flying.

Bruce Patton

  #27  
Old December 16th 17, 02:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Multiple varios

The ClearNav XC Vario emits a sink tone.

On 12/15/2017 1:24 PM, john firth wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:00:23 PM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
Why do so many gliders seem to have multiple varios? Is it that critical to have a back-up for this instrument? Do they often fail and leave you in "
the lurch"?

There is only one essential instrument for VFR and it lies between you ears.
a vario is next, with a vent to cockpit static if the TE gets plugged.

BTW, which Elec varios have an audible sink alarm; the old Cambridge audio was useless in sink as airspeed noise over 60-70 kts covered the LF tone.

In 1970, I built an analogue vario-computer with audio, head up speed to fly reader, TE comp etc..and audio rising tone in lift, and broken tone louder and rising in sink. Just what I needed , but the transducers gave trouble.

John F


--
Dan, 5J
  #28  
Old December 16th 17, 03:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,403
Default Multiple varios

And thank God you can disable it :-)

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 5:10:00 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
The ClearNav XC Vario emits a sink tone.

On 12/15/2017 1:24 PM, john firth wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:00:23 PM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
Why do so many gliders seem to have multiple varios? Is it that critical to have a back-up for this instrument? Do they often fail and leave you in "
the lurch"?

There is only one essential instrument for VFR and it lies between you ears.
a vario is next, with a vent to cockpit static if the TE gets plugged.

BTW, which Elec varios have an audible sink alarm; the old Cambridge audio was useless in sink as airspeed noise over 60-70 kts covered the LF tone.

In 1970, I built an analogue vario-computer with audio, head up speed to fly reader, TE comp etc..and audio rising tone in lift, and broken tone louder and rising in sink. Just what I needed , but the transducers gave trouble.

John F


--
Dan, 5J


  #29  
Old December 16th 17, 04:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Posts: 624
Default Multiple varios

This question may have more answers than there are pilots.
Jim
  #30  
Old December 16th 17, 10:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 668
Default Multiple varios

On Friday, 15 December 2017 19:00:02 UTC+2, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 10:12:52 AM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
I have yet to fly a glider which has electrical and mechanical variometer that display identical signal all the time. Until then i feel that both mechanical and electrical variometers give more information about the airmass than single one.


Mechanical plays hell with modern (pressure transducer type) electric on same TE circuit. In that event, the mechanical may well be giving the better information.

Results vary depending upon pneumatic impedance of your TE probe and other things...

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8


I had two TE probes in my previous glider, and made a some experiments how much mechanical variometer (Bohli and 0,35l bottle) affect electrical variometer. I flew both variometers with same TE tube or totally isolated TE systems. I could very easily tell different between two different TE probes, but could not see any meaningful difference in electrical vario behaviour if mechanical variometer was connected or not. After flying excellent electrically compensated system last summer I'm thinking that might be way to go in future.
 




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