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Glider - Towplane Signals



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 22nd 05, 05:58 PM
Mike the Strike
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Default Glider - Towplane Signals

Training manuals and,in the USA, the FAA test, require knowledge of all
the in-air signals between a glider and towplane. In all my 25-years
of aerotows, I've only had four go bad (less than 1%). In one, the
towplane engine quit just after liftoff, but early enough to enable us
both to land on remaining runway ahead of us. I've had one spoiler
deployment, which I spotted and corrected as soon as I realized my ship
felt unresponsive and we weren't climbing! I've had two tows where the
towplane slowed to the point where I lost aerodynamic control and I had
to release to recover. In one of the latter, I was in low tow and even
a radio call couldn't speed the towplane up quickly enough. In the
second (and more recent) I was in a two-seater without a radio and
quickly sank from high tow to low tow, possibly out of sight of the
towplane pilot's mirror view. I didn't have enough control to wag
anything and my only recovery method was to release.

In all my four aerotow incidents neither pilot had time to signal the
other. I can see the need for towplane - glider signals (spoilers open
and release now) but how useful are signals from the glider to the
towplane? In particular, I really wonder if signals to
increase/decrease speed, while useful for winch or ground launch, are
actually useless in real aerotow situations?

I feel much more comfortable where both towplane and glider have
working radios (although I was one of the victims at a regional contest
when a glider on tow called "towplane slow down 5 knots" and all five
of them in the air did so simultaneously!)

And with all the emphasis on rope-break training, I've never had one!

Comments, anecdotes?

Mike ASW 20 WA

  #2  
Old March 22nd 05, 07:24 PM
Andy Blackburn
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Default

At 17:30 22 March 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
In particular, I really wonder if signals to
increase/decrease speed, while useful for winch or
ground launch, are
actually useless in real aerotow situations?


Let's see:
- L-19 ran out out of gas just as we crested the high
point of the runway at
Sugarbush (LS-3 - full water) - I was 2' in he air
he was still on the ground.
No signals possible - except my hand signal after it
was all done.

- Canopy came open just after liftoff on a passenger
hop in a Janus. Didn't
need any signal - latch and go.

- Rope break at 300' over the high-tension lines at
Fremont, CA. I got my
signal all right.

- Three towplane release failures in a row at the beginning
of the roll. I
asked for a new towplane.

- Unable to release due to a non-standard ring. We
handled it by radio so
we could try to drop the line over the field. It's
still somewhere in the
Sonoran desert.

I've tried the speed-up slow-down signals occasionally,
but if I really
needed the speedup, I'm not sure I'd want to be churning
the controls.

I do make a point of knowing the towplane N-number
if at all possible.

9B




  #3  
Old March 23rd 05, 01:11 AM
Tony Verhulst
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I've tried the speed-up slow-down signals occasionally,
but if I really
needed the speedup, I'm not sure I'd want to be churning
the controls.


A few years a go, club member, with full water was being towed too
slowly. The tow plane radio was inop and the last thing he wanted to do
close to stall was to rock his wings.

Tony V.
  #4  
Old March 23rd 05, 01:24 AM
Greg Arnold
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Default

Tony Verhulst wrote:

I've tried the speed-up slow-down signals occasionally,
but if I really needed the speedup, I'm not sure I'd want to be churning
the controls.



A few years a go, club member, with full water was being towed too
slowly. The tow plane radio was inop and the last thing he wanted to do
close to stall was to rock his wings.

Tony V.



What is the chance that the towpilot would notice the wing rock, anyway?
  #5  
Old March 23rd 05, 01:48 AM
COLIN LAMB
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Default

What I see is a clear picture that working radios are essential for safety.
They are inexpensive and the communications between pilots when one goes
out of view is reassuring.

Colin N12HS


  #6  
Old March 23rd 05, 02:43 AM
Vaughn
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"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news:AK20e.1003$AN1.904@fed1read03...
Tony Verhulst wrote:

I've tried the speed-up slow-down signals occasionally,
but if I really needed the speedup, I'm not sure I'd want to be churning
the controls.



A few years a go, club member, with full water was being towed too slowly.
The tow plane radio was inop and the last thing he wanted to do close to
stall was to rock his wings.

Tony V.



What is the chance that the towpilot would notice the wing rock, anyway?


I always thought that the wing rock was for "speed up" was not the greatest
choice. Also, I have had mixed results with the "turn" signal, it is usually
not noticed. I find that particularly distressing when the tow pilot insists
on taking me downwind.

As someone else already noted, there is really no reason to not have radio
communications these days.

Vaughn


  #7  
Old March 23rd 05, 03:38 AM
BTIZ
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Default

lets talk about the tow pilots wing rock.. for GET OFF NOW!!!....
as a tow pilot... when you've got your hands full of a sick engine... last
thing I want to be doing is rocking so hard as to be obvious wing rock above
the normal bumps of a thermal or rotor..

he gets one rock... then he's eating rope..

BT

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news:AK20e.1003$AN1.904@fed1read03...
Tony Verhulst wrote:

I've tried the speed-up slow-down signals occasionally,
but if I really needed the speedup, I'm not sure I'd want to be
churning
the controls.


A few years a go, club member, with full water was being towed too
slowly. The tow plane radio was inop and the last thing he wanted to do
close to stall was to rock his wings.

Tony V.



What is the chance that the towpilot would notice the wing rock, anyway?


I always thought that the wing rock was for "speed up" was not the
greatest choice. Also, I have had mixed results with the "turn" signal,
it is usually not noticed. I find that particularly distressing when the
tow pilot insists on taking me downwind.

As someone else already noted, there is really no reason to not have
radio communications these days.

Vaughn



  #8  
Old March 23rd 05, 11:20 AM
Bill Gribble
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Default

At risk of making myself look daft because I've mis-remembered the
signals, I'm pretty certain that here in the UK rocking the glider's
wings is an indication that you can't release from tow (though it's
actually combined with flying out to the left before giving the signal)
and so by implication, I'd guess, a request that the tug release you at
an appropriate point.

I'll also add that before I go to work on getting cleared for aerotow
(I'm not in any rush - so far I've trained, solo'd and got my bronze on
the winch) I'll make sure I've revised and am certain of the signals.
Although I imagine most of the private gliders at my club have radio,
our training fleet of Ka13's doesn't, so tug and tow are reliant upon
signals as the only form of communication between them.

Bill

BTIZ writes
lets talk about the tow pilots wing rock.. for GET OFF NOW!!!....
as a tow pilot... when you've got your hands full of a sick engine... last
thing I want to be doing is rocking so hard as to be obvious wing rock above
the normal bumps of a thermal or rotor..

he gets one rock... then he's eating rope..

BT

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news:AK20e.1003$AN1.904@fed1read03...
Tony Verhulst wrote:

I've tried the speed-up slow-down signals occasionally,
but if I really needed the speedup, I'm not sure I'd want to be
churning
the controls.


A few years a go, club member, with full water was being towed too
slowly. The tow plane radio was inop and the last thing he wanted to do
close to stall was to rock his wings.

Tony V.


What is the chance that the towpilot would notice the wing rock, anyway?


I always thought that the wing rock was for "speed up" was not the
greatest choice. Also, I have had mixed results with the "turn" signal,
it is usually not noticed. I find that particularly distressing when the
tow pilot insists on taking me downwind.

As someone else already noted, there is really no reason to not have
radio communications these days.

Vaughn




--
Bill Gribble
http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk
- Learn from the mistakes of others.
- You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself.
  #9  
Old March 23rd 05, 12:16 PM
Vaughn
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Default


"Bill Gribble" wrote in message
.. .
so tug and tow are reliant upon signals as the only form of communication
between them.


Compared to most other things in aviation, portable radios are cheap.

Vaughn


  #10  
Old March 23rd 05, 12:17 PM
Vaughn
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Default


"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:4F40e.73236$Tt.29647@fed1read05...

he gets one rock... then he's eating rope..

Fair enough! In that situation you do what you gotta do.

Vaughn


 




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