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#41
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"Jerry Springer" wrote in message ... Ron Wanttaja wrote: On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:55:43 -0700, Jerry Springer wrote: Let them keep flying but at least have an AME give them a "4th class" physical every two years with basically the same restrictions as the currnet SPL. The medical requirements haven't changed, only the documentation. The same conditions that make you ineligible for a third class medical *also* disqualify you for Sport Pilot. It isn't a "Fourth Class," it's just the ability to self-certify like glider pilots. Hi Ron, your points are well taken. Do you really believe that a lot of people that are not accountable to anyone but themselves for their medical conditions are really going to ground themselves when they should? I understand there is not a "4th class medical" but there should be a monitoring system to watch people that are flying with known physical conditions. There is a monitoring system today; it is the pilots around you and the people who rent you planes. Sure, you can own your own plane and fly it out of your own pasture and nobody will ever know, but those lucky people are a tiny minority. The simple fact is that the statistics do not support medical certification. A visit to the AME once every two years does virtually nothing to screen you for medical incapacitation over the following two years, particularly sudden incapacitation. There is also a large "test population" (glider pilots) that has been flying around for decades without medical screening that shows no statistical difference in medically related accidents compared to the general population of pilots. Do glider pilots always stop flying when they should? No, unfortunately they don't. But those people go through the same peer pressure that you see at your local airport when a pilot starts to decline. Declining "senior" pilots are encouraged to fly with a friend, encouraged to choose a new licensed pilot for "co-mentoring", and if all else fails, they are encouraged to leave, first subtly, and finally bluntly. I have seen the painful process unfold several times. Vaughn |
#42
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:21:37 -0700, Ron Wanttaja
wrote: In any case, Sport Pilot basically formalizes something that's been going on for a long time: pilots with disqualifying medical conditions continuing to fly. Personally, I feel far more endangered by the guy in the huge Canyonero SUV in the lane next to me on I-5 than by a J-3 popping by overhead. . Ron Wanttaja Ron, I flew next to a guy that literally couldn't find the runway unless his co-pilot pointed it out to him. He needed a magnifying glass to read a restaurant menu. I didn't realize how bad he was until it was too late and we were already well into our long trip back east. He kept flying even though he was obviously ready for a white cane... You probably know him, too... is he still flying?? John |
#43
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"Vaughn" wrote in message ... There is also a large "test population" (glider pilots) that has been flying around for decades without medical screening that shows no statistical difference in medically related accidents compared to the general population of pilots. Do glider pilots always stop flying when they should? No, unfortunately they don't. But those people go through the same peer pressure that you see at your local airport when a pilot starts to decline. Declining "senior" pilots are encouraged to fly with a friend, encouraged to choose a new licensed pilot for "co-mentoring", and if all else fails, they are encouraged to leave, first subtly, and finally bluntly. I have seen the painful process unfold several times. Vaughn On the other side of the coin I have observed glider pilots recognize their limitations and stop flying when they realized their skills were declining. One example is a pilot in his early 80s who after successfully completing a 500 km triangle flight out of Sun Valley, ID landed and stated: "That was a great flight! It is the way I want to remember soaring." He immediately put his glider on the market and cancelled his life time membership in the Soaring Society of American. He still is actively involved in hiking, cross country skiing and attends the local soaring social events. I hope I am that wise and recognize when my vision, reflexes, etc endanger myself and those around me. Wayne http://www.soaridaho.com/ |
#44
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On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:06:10 -0700, John Ammeter
wrote: On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:21:37 -0700, Ron Wanttaja wrote: In any case, Sport Pilot basically formalizes something that's been going on for a long time: pilots with disqualifying medical conditions continuing to fly. Personally, I feel far more endangered by the guy in the huge Canyonero SUV in the lane next to me on I-5 than by a J-3 popping by overhead. I flew next to a guy that literally couldn't find the runway unless his co-pilot pointed it out to him. He needed a magnifying glass to read a restaurant menu. I didn't realize how bad he was until it was too late and we were already well into our long trip back east. He kept flying even though he was obviously ready for a white cane... You probably know him, too... is he still flying?? Yep...he's the "eye condition" guy I mentioned. His field of vision was so bad that he always lined up on the left edge of the runway, because he could make out the asphalt/grass interface easier than trying to center himself. He'd slip the plane to the right as he crossed the fence. As you say, a bit of a shock if you didn't know about it. I half-slid up the back of the seat as my legs involuntarily stiffened the first time I flew with him, saying "we're off to the left, we're off to the left" while I watched us close in on the edge lighting. He actually had surgery a while back, and I believe he's a lot better. He did marvel at how much better he could see, now. Ron Wanttaja |
#45
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On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:21:44 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote: "John Ammeter" wrote in message .. . I flew next to a guy that literally couldn't find the runway unless his co-pilot pointed it out to him. He needed a magnifying glass to read a restaurant menu. I didn't realize how bad he was until it was too late and we were already well into our long trip back east. He kept flying even though he was obviously ready for a white cane... You probably know him, too... is he still flying?? Dammit, John - you promised. Zip the lip! 8-) Rich "Which way did he go??" S. No, No.... you're the one that gets short of breath lifting a beer mug off the table.. John |
#46
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Patrick,
I hope to get an airplane or two placed up there soon. Come down and fly with us after Airventure. Rick W P Dixon wrote: Hey Rick, I sure wish you could sell a few of those planes over here in east TN. I may have to come over to Memphis and take one for a ride! Lord that's a longgg drive! I need a plane and cert to go fly a plane and get a cert!!!!! Patrick student SPL aircraft structural mech "Rick Pellicciotti" wrote in message ... When our airplanes get here next month, we will be charging $69/hr wet for our S-LSA airplane (Aerostar Festival). Our instructors get $30/hr so your dual time will be $99/hr. Figure 30 hours for the average person and the cost for a Sport Pilot license will be $3,000.00. Since we only use CFI's for your training, all of the dual that you do for your Sport Pilot license will count towards a Private later if you choose to go for it. Rick Pellicciotti http://www.lightsportflying.com keepitrunning wrote: Has anyone come up with an estimated cost of a sport pilot license versus a regular pilot's license. Then would it be reasonable to add the requirements for a pilot's license later? Any thoughts and comments are appreciated. Gary |
#47
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I will research this later when I have a little more time and give the
specific FARs. In the meantime, I will clarify this by saying that I had a conversation with my FSDO about this and the consensus was that the language in the FARs states that instruction for a private pilot certificate can only be given by an instructor that is authorized to give it. A flight instructor/Sport Pilot is indeed a Certified Flight Instructor - Sport Pilot. There is no authorization for a CFI-SP to give instruction for a rating or certificate above the level of Sport Pilot. Therefore, it is the interpretation of my FSDO that cross country dual given by a CFI-SP does not count toward the requirement for cross country dual when going for a Private certificate. The FSDO does agree that all solo time counts. By using "conventional' or 'pre-sport pilot" CFI's for your Sport Pilot training, they are authorized to give dual instruction toward the Private certificate and therefore your dual that you receive during Sport Pilot training can be counted towards your future Private certificate. Again, this my FSDO's interpretation. I am travelling and when I get home, I will get out my notes from the meeting and write more about it including FAR references. Perhaps somone from NAFI will jump in here and clarify this more. Rick Pellicciotti http://www.lightsportflying.com |
#48
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Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:40:31 -0700, Jerry Springer wrote: Ron Wanttaja wrote: The medical requirements haven't changed, only the documentation. The same conditions that make you ineligible for a third class medical *also* disqualify you for Sport Pilot. It isn't a "Fourth Class," it's just the ability to self-certify like glider pilots. Hi Ron, your points are well taken. Do you really believe that a lot of people that are not accountable to anyone but themselves for their medical conditions are really going to ground themselves when they should? Jerry, what grounds them *now*? Just sitting here and thinking a moment, I came up with the names of five guys who continued/are still continuing to fly with conditions that would prevent them from receiving an FAA medical. Cataracts, heart problems, diabetes, kidney stones, and I forget what the fifth one was. Ironic, really, 'cause he was the only one that was caught by the FAA. How? His engine failed on takeoff and he crashed. No injuries, but wasn't able to produce his medical certificate to the accident investigator, who subsequently determined he'd been denied renewal. In the 20 or so years I've owned airplanes, I've never had to show my medical except during BFRs. All the guys I mention above own their own planes...and I bet they don't get BFRs, either. Your points about public perception are certainly valid, but in truth, there's nothing that prevents *anyone* from flying a personally-owned aircraft without a medical. They can dodge it completely...or pencil whip their way through it. Other than the few physical items that are checked during the examination, the only way the FAA finds out whether an applicant has a invalidating condition is if the person admits it on the application form. Yes, it's perjury. But the FAA isn't likely to find out. People don't ground themselves now, and I don't believe Sport Pilot is going to make things any worse. Ron Wanttaja I think I may be the only recorded case of grounding myself for a disqualifying condition that I know of..... I came down with an inner ear problem in Aug. 2000 which badly affected my balance, caused dizziness and so on. I grounded myself for about 6 mos. I actually started flying again before I should have, but I did ground myself at first . I let the medical expire and, due to the immense paper trail left by doctors who didn't know what the hell they were doing with my case, the prudent thing to do was to not try to renew it. My current plane fits well within the LSA limitations, so I'm currently flying under the SP rule with my private certificate and drivers license. Otherwise, there are things about my physical condition that the FAA would ground me for that I know conclusively do not interefere with my flying, so I make that judgement (and not them). And if I owned an Rv7 or something, would I fly it? well, for that kind of cash, you bet LS N646F |
#49
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"John Ammeter" wrote in message
... I flew next to a guy that literally couldn't find the runway unless his co-pilot pointed it out to him. He needed a magnifying glass to read a restaurant menu. I didn't realize how bad he was until it was too late and we were already well into our long trip back east. He kept flying even though he was obviously ready for a white cane... You probably know him, too... is he still flying?? Dammit, John - you promised. Zip the lip! 8-) Rich "Which way did he go??" S. |
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