Anyone flown with an AoA indicator?

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 122...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote

AOA is optional equipment for GA and I understand the airlines have
done a study on it's use in large aircraft.

Most of us joining PanAm during, or just after Vietnam, had considerable
experience flying AOA and couldn't understand why the latest jetliners
were not so equipped. It soon became obvious that ALPA and the old WWII
bomber captains that it represented wanted nothing to do with modern
technology. This group rejected CVRs, GPWS, AOA and anything else that
would have required them to be retrained.

This group of pilots are held in high esteem by almost everyone except
those of us who had to fly with them. They had received minimal training
for their B-17 or C-47 job in the Airforce and only through the strength
of the union, barely made it through the jet transition.

They still (1960's) would fly a "raw data" ILS instead of using the flight
director. Most of them had no business in a jet airplane. PanAm crashed
a large number of their B-707s due to pilot issues.

Bob Moore

That's interesting. I know it's hard sometimes to wean pilots off those
steam gauges and into new technology. What was it one guy said the first
time he used an MFD? "Now I know how my dog feels watching TV" :-)

On raw data and the FD; It would seem prudent to me to have the guy flying
the approach on the FD with the other seat monitoring the raw data. I know
the one time I landed a DC8, (just a guest of the chief pilot of the airline
on a ferry flight into Alaska ) this was the procedure we used.
My understanding on AOA for you heavy drivers is that you actually have
preferred using a calculated approach speed for the GW rather than AOA
because the configurations and the weights vary so much.
I've seen a fairly recent report from Boeing discussing AOA with the majors,
but as of now, I think it's still VERY optional, and the MFD with AOA on a
side bar has to be specially ordered during the pre-sale spec meetings
between the line main office and Boeing.
Don't know about Airbus. Haven't heard anything there at all.
Dudley

Yes. 20-series Lears.

Bob Gardner

"xerj" wrote in message
...
Was reading an article in an Australian mag about an LED based AoA
indicator in a homebuilt. The author stated that in many ways it
"replaced" the AI for him.

Anyone have experience with them?

"Dudley Henriques" wrote
My understanding on AOA for you heavy drivers is that you actually
have preferred using a calculated approach speed for the GW rather
than AOA because the configurations and the weights vary so much.

That was the beauty of the AOA system that I flew for two years in
the Navy P-3. Each flap setting was fed into the AOA computer and
the GW is automatically acounted for as a function of AOA.
No thought or computation required for the flightcrew. AOA *IS*
airspeed properly adjusted for all of the variables, or I should say
that airspeedd is a not very good approximation of the AOA that one
should be flying.

Those "old farts" would not relenquish ANY of their authority to a
copilot or a machine. Thank god for CRM, GPWS and TCAS.

Bob Moore

I'm with you on the value of AOA. For every optimum airspeed there's an AOA
for that airspeed. In my opinion,it's the WAY to fly.
I know a lot of the old guard had big issues with the glass cockpits as they
began to interface into the systems and cockpit management program.
I guess it's that way most of the time really. Some pilots transition with
no problems at all, and some hang on to the old ways like their fingers were
inches away from letting go of the edge of a cliff :-)
I always liked technology and adapted to it fairly easily. Of course in the
old military fast props I was pushing around most of the time I was lucky if
even the steam gauges were all working at one time :-)
We had a twin Beech with a Collins FD109 in it. I think that was about your
period of director too.
I loved that damn thing!!! :-)
Were you in P3's down at Pax per chance? I did some flying down there at TPS
and Strike when Tex Birdwell was the CO at the school and Tom Flannery was
there. Admiral Brown was the base CO back then. The P3's were something to
dodge in the pattern :-))))
Great people at Pax; some of the most talented people I ever met in
aviation.
Dudley Henriques


"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote
My understanding on AOA for you heavy drivers is that you actually
have preferred using a calculated approach speed for the GW rather
than AOA because the configurations and the weights vary so much.

That was the beauty of the AOA system that I flew for two years in
the Navy P-3. Each flap setting was fed into the AOA computer and
the GW is automatically acounted for as a function of AOA.
No thought or computation required for the flightcrew. AOA *IS*
airspeed properly adjusted for all of the variables, or I should say
that airspeedd is a not very good approximation of the AOA that one
should be flying.

Those "old farts" would not relenquish ANY of their authority to a
copilot or a machine. Thank god for CRM, GPWS and TCAS.

Bob Moore

"Dudley Henriques" wrote
Were you in P3's down at Pax per chance? I did some flying down there
at TPS and Strike when Tex Birdwell was the CO at the school and Tom
Flannery was there. Admiral Brown was the base CO back then. The P3's
were something to dodge in the pattern :-))))

Nope! Okinawa, Philippines, and Thailand. And of course...Vietnam.

Bob Moore

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 122...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote
Were you in P3's down at Pax per chance? I did some flying down there
at TPS and Strike when Tex Birdwell was the CO at the school and Tom
Flannery was there. Admiral Brown was the base CO back then. The P3's
were something to dodge in the pattern :-))))

Nope! Okinawa, Philippines, and Thailand. And of course...Vietnam.

Bob Moore

Ah, the sunny tropics. :-))

Speaking of the tropics; I hope the weather down there in Fla. missed you.
Our daughter is above you in Ormond Beach.
Take care, and all the best,
D

xerj wrote:
Was reading an article in an Australian mag about an LED based AoA
indicator in a homebuilt. The author stated that in many ways it
"replaced" the AI for him.

Anyone have experience with them?

In the B-58 we used the angle of attack indicator for primary speed
reference on approach and landing. We computed the correct indicated speed
for approach as a back up reference. The "green doughnut" on-speed
indicator was set for a 12.5° angle of attack.

--

Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
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