Landout Laws

One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the
person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider
ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card.


Steve Hopkins wrote:

I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted
a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing
out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife
to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this
do wonders for public relations, I think they even
managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a
wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club
rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual
dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown
and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed
in his field that year!

Nyal Williams wrote:

It helps to be on friendly terms with someone in agribusiness.
As a protection before starting the season, know
in general how much gross income 1 acre is expected
to generate for several of the local crops, and keep
these figures quietly in mind.

I'm reminded of someone who landed out during a contest at Montague,
California, about 15 years ago. The farmer became obnoxious, demanded
something like $200, the pilot offered $50 compensation for what was
essentially no damage. The sheriff was called, and the next day all
assembled at field, including the glider, and a county agricultural
official. Said official estimated the damage to the crop, under the best
possible circumstances for the farmer, to be less than $25. Pilot again
offered $50; the farmer said "$200 or nothing", so nothing is what he
got. Pilot took glider and left.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Wonderful post. One wee addition.

A friend of mine swore by a wrinkle to the "offer to take the owner's
picture with the glider using

your digital camera and email him the photo" strategy. His idea was to get the farmer's youngest _kid_ in the cockpit, take a photo, and promise to send a copy. Instant enthusiastic friend and ally! Well worth the risk to his glider, he figured, to have someone ready to be disappointed should his/her father take a hard line with this extraordinary visitor.

Bruce


Chip Bearden wrote:

With all due respect to those who've already paid, I don't agree with
offering $100 for several reasons:

1) In the context described, it's an admission of liability for
whatever damages the owner may decide (now or after you've departed)
that you--or the hordes of spectators who run/drive out into the field
to see the "glider crash"--have inflicted.

2) It invites a counteroffer/demand: e.g., "Gee, if this rich pilot is
offering $100, I can probably get $500 out of him."

3) It guarantees that the NEXT guy to land in your field will be hit
with a substantial demand.

I've landed out about 100 times over the past 35 years and only had a
few sticky situations. I like to think it's because I really try hard
to treat the owners like human beings rather than ignorant peasants.
Witnessing some of our crowd trying to communicate with local land
owners is like watching someone speaking loudly to a blind person on
the mistaken assumption that he/she is either deaf or stupid.

Be that as it may, I've had my troubles. One bad case was an irascible
owner about whom I was warned by the locals just before he drove up in
his Cadillac. I went through the whole "I didn't have any choice, I'm
just glad your field was here, I touched down between the rows [of 6"
high beans] to prevent any damage, my primary concern is keeping
spectators out of the field so they won't damage anything [this is a
real issue and also resonates well with the owner as it says two
things: you know what you're talking about, and you two are on the
same side], thank you so much for your hospitality, etc."

The owner walked back to the car, reached in for a clipboard, and
shoved it at me, demanding that I supply my name, address, etc.
Diplomacy wasn't working so I walked over to the cockpit, got my own
clipboard and one of my turnpoint cameras and politely but firmly
asked the farmer for HIS data, as well, explaining that I obviously
hadn't done any damage so far, that my crew and I would de-rig and
carry out the pieces to avoid any damage, and (importantly) that I
would take photos from all four directions both before and after the
glider was moved to establish to my insurance company that there
wasn't any damage. Oh, and by the way, I planned to ask these nice
fellows standing around us to sign a statement attesting to the lack
of damage. I gave him my name, insurance contact, etc., but never
heard a word.

The only other sticky experience was when I had the misfortune to land
in a beautiful hay field in Maryland...precisely one year after the
previous GLIDER pilot had landed, driven over the hay to get his
glider, and vanished before the farmer could find out who had done the
damage. The injured farmer had been waiting one year to vent his anger
and extract revenge!

It took me almost an hour to talk him down and leave him reasonably
mollified. If I could have gotten my hands around the throat of the
idiot who'd caused the whole thing a year earlier, I'd have done what
the farmer originally wanted to do to him myself.

My advice: If you've really damaged the crop, apologize for the
situation without admitting or promising too much (yes, it's your
fault, but don't encourage the owner to think he's hit the lottery).
Give the owner your insurance information and reassure him; that's
what insurance is for, it doesn't happen very often, you've never had
a claim, etc.

And be nice. I can't emphasize this enough. Be nice and just keep
talking. Put yourself in this person's shoes and commiserate. And
although first impressions count for a lot (i.e., the first person the
owner encounters is you), having a crewperson arrive who is equally
skilled in conversation (and/or who is an attractive female) also
helps. Having a couple of cute kids pop out of the retrieve vehicle
and exclaim over the cows helps even more, for yet another reason why
you should get your family involved in soaring.

If you haven't damaged anything, be nice but try to avoid bending to
extortion demands. I'm not a lawyer but my impression is that if the
farmer refuses to let you secure your glider, he assumes liability if
anything should occur. Most officers of the law are likely to be
helpful in this regard even if they're friendly with the owner. If it
starts to get tense, insisting on calling the local police/sheriff
often helps cool things down; the irate owner usually doesn't expect
the trespasser to call the police.

Having said all of this, I'll admit that I have occasionally paid
small amounts of cash as we're packing up to leave, mostly in
compensation for the tractor that pulled the glider out of the field,
etc. But I always ask if I can make a contribution to the owner's
church instead of offering him the money directly. I've never had
anyone look offended or fail to smile genuinely, shake my hand, and
thank me. And I think all of my contributions have found their way
into the offering plate on Sunday, making the whole experience a
win-win for everyone.

These days, offer to take the owner's picture with the glider using
your digital camera and email him the photo. If he's a good guy, he
will appreciate it. If he's threatening, the mere mention of
photographic evidence might encourage him to be more cooperative.

Just my opinion. Every situation is different. Remain calm even if the
owner isn't acting rationally. Sometimes the best solution is to just
keep smiling, keep soothing, and wait it out. Just because you can
afford to fly doesn't give an opportunistic field owner the right to a
transfer payment from your wallet to his.

And keep thinking about the pilot who's going to land in the same
field next year. Try to make sure he gets a nice reception, because it
could be me.

Chip Bearden



* Make it clear that the landing was unintentional, and the field was
chosen as a best last resort. Be visibly relieved that their field was
available so that you didn't have to crash.

* If they are anything but happy to have you there, offer them about
$100 in cash per glider in exchange for any "damages" even if you
landed in weeds, fallow, pasture, or plowed. That usually cheers them
up at least a little. That's worked great for the two ag field
retrieves I've worked. If you don't have $100 cash, or couldn't stand
to part with it if you did, you probably shouldn't be flying
cross-country.

I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the
airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone
driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to
remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will
likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages, gross
per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other crops
it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like
it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's
about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of
any damage and you will be ok.


"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news2TXb.4247$hE.3741@fed1read07...
One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the
person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider
ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card.


Steve Hopkins wrote:

I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted
a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing
out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife
to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this
do wonders for public relations, I think they even
managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a
wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club
rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual
dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown
and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed
in his field that year!








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Do you happen to know what the value of cotton is per acre?

Were I fly, most often the farmer/rancher is not on site, and I have not
even seen ownership info posted so that I could contact him later. In
situations like this, what should a pilot/crew do to minimize damage, and
reduce the chances of angering the farmer? Is cutting and then repairing a
chain link acceptable or not? If not what is the alternative?

Thank you,

"Birdy" wrote in message
...
I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land
in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the
airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone
driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to
remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will
likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages,
gross
per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other
crops
it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like
it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's
about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of
any damage and you will be ok.


"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news2TXb.4247$hE.3741@fed1read07...
One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the
person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider
ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card.


Steve Hopkins wrote:

I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted
a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing
out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife
to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this
do wonders for public relations, I think they even
managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a
wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club
rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual
dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown
and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed
in his field that year!








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Eric,
Was that Bruce L. that landed in Butte Valley? He said he had the farmer all
calmed down when another glider saw him in the field and decided to land there
also.
Bruce said there was just no controlling the farmer after that.

Out of Air Sailing, a pilot landed and walked up to the farm house to find a
note pinned to the front door. "I have gone to town, if you're here when I get
back, I'll shoot you".
Mean farmers in Nevada.
JJ Sinclair

All very good posts.... When dealing with a receptive landowner,every efffort
should be made to placate him (or her). The real problem arises when dealing
with someone who is totally intractable. At this point the best alternative is
to call the local authorities and let the legal system deal with the situation.
Regarding the situation in Florida, the landowner arrived at the site, demanded
that the sheriff issue a summons and and absolutely refushed to even talk to
pilots or crews.

You've received many responses, all offering good advice. Here's a
suggestion to get real info on legalities. If you are an AOPA member,
call them and make use of their member services, which include just
this type of legal assistance. If you are not a member, perhaps you
can convince an AOPA member to call and share with the group.

JJ Sinclair wrote:
Eric,
Was that Bruce L. that landed in Butte Valley? He said he had the farmer all
calmed down when another glider saw him in the field and decided to land there
also.
Bruce said there was just no controlling the farmer after that.

No, just one glider. As I remember it, the farmer wasn't angry, just
obnoxious. I very vaguely remember "Tom" as the pilot's name, and that
the Sheriff told Tom people around there didn't much like the farmer either.


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-----
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

That means that the gross per square foot is typically 1 cent, but
sometimes as high as 10 cents. Say you damage 10' by 100'. That
typically would be $10, but might be $100. Not a lot of damage.


Birdy wrote:

I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the
airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone
driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to
remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will
likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages, gross
per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other crops
it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like
it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's
about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of
any damage and you will be ok.