Why was the SB2C refered to as the "Beast" when the TBF was bigger?

W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:

The Douglas A3D Skywarrior was probably the biggest operated from
the 27C class modified WWII carriers.

Could we count the modified P2Vs that the nuclear strike VC squadrons
were to use? They did do a number of launches from the various
Midways (Which, I think, count as WW 2 ships).
Although they did have hooks, and performed FCLPs, according to Holly
Hills, who flew 'em after he returned to the Navy after flying in the
RCAF, they never could find a Carrier Skipper who'd let them come
aboard his ship in any manner other than a crane.

--
Pete Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee.

Peter Stickney wrote:

W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:

The Douglas A3D Skywarrior was probably the biggest operated from
the 27C class modified WWII carriers.

Could we count the modified P2Vs that the nuclear strike VC squadrons
were to use? They did do a number of launches from the various
Midways (Which, I think, count as WW 2 ships).
Although they did have hooks, and performed FCLPs, according to Holly
Hills, who flew 'em after he returned to the Navy after flying in the
RCAF, they never could find a Carrier Skipper who'd let them come
aboard his ship in any manner other than a crane.

Pete, you know where, what and when Holly flew in the RCAF?
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:

The Douglas A3D Skywarrior was probably the biggest operated from
the 27C class modified WWII carriers.

Could we count the modified P2Vs that the nuclear strike VC squadrons
were to use? They did do a number of launches from the various
Midways (Which, I think, count as WW 2 ships).
Although they did have hooks, and performed FCLPs, according to Holly
Hills, who flew 'em after he returned to the Navy after flying in the
RCAF, they never could find a Carrier Skipper who'd let them come
aboard his ship in any manner other than a crane.

--
Pete Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee.

Construction on the Midways was started during WWII but it was not rushed.
When they were ordered it was realized that they would not be required
during the War, so they were planned from the beginning to combine the best
features of the carriers used during the war. A kind of "lessons learned
carrier. They had about the same aircraft complement and the same speed as
the Essexs they were 45,000 tons compared to the approximate 31,000 ton
Essexs. There were originally supposed to be six Midways, but only three
were built and they were not completed until after the war was over. IIRC
the Midways were the first US ships ordered that were designed from the
start as being too wide to fit through the Panama canal.

(The following is more useless information from someone with too much time
on their hands, because its raining and I can't go fishing. Aviation
content? Yes the BB's carried scout planes, and were on the way to the
pacific to shout down jap naval aircraft.)Yes before anyone asks the Iowa
Class BB's could and did go through the Panama Canal. I know the New Jersey
was the first through the canal going through on 7 Jan 1944. The Iowa sailed
from Norfolk (?) on 2 Jan 44 but it probably took 7 days to get to the Canal
so most likely it was the 2d one through. The Wisconsin went through at the
end of Sep '44 followed by the Missouri on 18 Nov '44. The canal locks are
officially 33 meters (108.26 feet) wide and the battleships are supposed to
be 108 feet 2 inches (or 108.66 feet) at the water line. Tight fit ?

"Diamond Jim" wrote in message
om...

Construction on the Midways was started during WWII but it was not rushed.
When they were ordered it was realized that they would not be required
during the War, so they were planned from the beginning to combine the
best
features of the carriers used during the war. A kind of "lessons learned
carrier. They had about the same aircraft complement and the same speed as
the Essexs they were 45,000 tons compared to the approximate 31,000 ton
Essexs. There were originally supposed to be six Midways, but only three
were built and they were not completed until after the war was over. IIRC
the Midways were the first US ships ordered that were designed from the
start as being too wide to fit through the Panama canal.


Midway was ordered in August 1942, her keel was laid down in October 1943,
and she was launched in March 1945. It's true she wasn't commissioned until
after VJ Day, in September 1945, but just who realized by any of those
earlier dates that none of the Midway class would be required during WWII?

Diamond Jim wrote:

Construction on the Midways was started during WWII but it was not rushed.
When they were ordered it was realized that they would not be required
during the War, so they were planned from the beginning to combine the best
features of the carriers used during the war. A kind of "lessons learned
carrier. ...

According to Friedman:

"Four large carriers were, therefore, included in a Maximum War Effort
shipbuilding program. President Roosevelt approved the program, with
the exception of the four carriers, on 12 August 1942. On 8 October,
after pressure from Admiral King and the General Board, he agreed to
the large carriers, but only if the General Board could certify 'that
the program for the immediate construction of smaller carriers is
adequate for the next two years' and 'that greater speed can be made in
the construction of these 45,000 ton carriers than is indicated in the
report of the General Board of September 11th.'"

Friedman covers the approval and building process in great detail. I
can not locate any reference that it was realized the Midway-class
would not be required during the war.

Had Truman decided not to drop the bomb, or if it hadn't worked
correctly at first, etc, etc.

Friedman even mentions: "In 1940, when the Midway design began, ..."

Are there references which indicate that the Midway-class wasn't rushed
and that it wasn't expected to be operational before the war would end?

MW

"Diamond Jim" wrote in
om:


"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:

The Douglas A3D Skywarrior was probably the biggest operated from
the 27C class modified WWII carriers.

Could we count the modified P2Vs that the nuclear strike VC squadrons
were to use? They did do a number of launches from the various
Midways (Which, I think, count as WW 2 ships).
Although they did have hooks, and performed FCLPs, according to Holly
Hills, who flew 'em after he returned to the Navy after flying in the
RCAF, they never could find a Carrier Skipper who'd let them come
aboard his ship in any manner other than a crane.

--
Pete Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee.

Construction on the Midways was started during WWII but it was not
rushed. When they were ordered it was realized that they would not be
required during the War, so they were planned from the beginning to
combine the best features of the carriers used during the war. A kind
of "lessons learned carrier. They had about the same aircraft
complement and the same speed as the Essexs they were 45,000 tons
compared to the approximate 31,000 ton Essexs. There were originally
supposed to be six Midways, but only three were built and they were
not completed until after the war was over. IIRC the Midways were the
first US ships ordered that were designed from the start as being too
wide to fit through the Panama canal.

(The following is more useless information from someone with too much
time on their hands, because its raining and I can't go fishing.
Aviation content? Yes the BB's carried scout planes, and were on the
way to the pacific to shout down jap naval aircraft.)Yes before anyone
asks the Iowa Class BB's could and did go through the Panama Canal. I
know the New Jersey was the first through the canal going through on 7
Jan 1944. The Iowa sailed from Norfolk (?) on 2 Jan 44 but it probably
took 7 days to get to the Canal so most likely it was the 2d one
through. The Wisconsin went through at the end of Sep '44 followed by
the Missouri on 18 Nov '44. The canal locks are officially 33 meters
(108.26 feet) wide and the battleships are supposed to be 108 feet 2
inches (or 108.66 feet) at the water line. Tight fit ?

Go here to see more on the New Jersey's last trip through the canal:

http://www.czbrats.com/CuPA/Jimpics/ussnj.htm

Dave

Gord Beaman wrote:

Peter Stickney wrote:

W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:

The Douglas A3D Skywarrior was probably the biggest operated from
the 27C class modified WWII carriers.

Could we count the modified P2Vs that the nuclear strike VC
squadrons
were to use? They did do a number of launches from the various
Midways (Which, I think, count as WW 2 ships).
Although they did have hooks, and performed FCLPs, according to
Holly Hills, who flew 'em after he returned to the Navy after flying
in the RCAF, they never could find a Carrier Skipper who'd let them
come aboard his ship in any manner other than a crane.

Pete, you know where, what and when Holly flew in the RCAF?

Let's see what my notes say -
He signed on with the RCAF in June 1940, and was inducted in September
'40. The Empire Air Training Scheme was slow getting started, so he
didn't report to #7 Elementary Flight Training School until January
'41. Primary was done on Fleet Finches. In March, he went to
Dauphin, Manitoba for the Service Flying Training School. Advanced
was in Harvards. He got his wings as a Sergeant Pilot on June 22,
1941.
He did a little horse trading, and was posted to England in August,
'41. He went through the Army Cooperation Command (Recce and
FIghter-Bombers, these days) OTU at Old Sarum, flying Lysanders and
Curtiss Tomahawks (P-40Bs) He was posted to RCAF 414 Squadron,
initially flying Tomahawks in the Air Cooperation Command.
414 Squadron transitioned to Mustangs Is in June '42. The first
combat missions for 414 were flown over Dieppe. During the course of
this, Holly shot down an Fw 190 - the first Mustang kill. They also
did a lot of low level recce and train busting. (Air Cooperation
Command Mustang Is were the first Allied fighters to penetrate German
airspace)

In November 1942, he transferred to the U.S. Navy, where he flew F2A
Buffalos and F4F Wildcats in transition and gunnery training. While
still a student, he spent 3 months instructing the instructors - He
was the only guy at the Miami Naval Air Station that had combat
experience. He then spent a year in the Pacific, flying F6F Hellcats
with VF-32, VF-150. and VF-97. He shot down 4 Zeros, and
participated in the Marianas Turkey Shoot.

--
Pete Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 01:51:29 GMT, Dave in San Diego
wrote:

"Diamond Jim" wrote in
. com:


"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:

The Douglas A3D Skywarrior was probably the biggest operated from
the 27C class modified WWII carriers.

Could we count the modified P2Vs that the nuclear strike VC squadrons
were to use? They did do a number of launches from the various
Midways (Which, I think, count as WW 2 ships).
Although they did have hooks, and performed FCLPs, according to Holly
Hills, who flew 'em after he returned to the Navy after flying in the
RCAF, they never could find a Carrier Skipper who'd let them come
aboard his ship in any manner other than a crane.

--
Pete Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee.

Construction on the Midways was started during WWII but it was not
rushed. When they were ordered it was realized that they would not be
required during the War, so they were planned from the beginning to
combine the best features of the carriers used during the war. A kind
of "lessons learned carrier. They had about the same aircraft
complement and the same speed as the Essexs they were 45,000 tons
compared to the approximate 31,000 ton Essexs. There were originally
supposed to be six Midways, but only three were built and they were
not completed until after the war was over. IIRC the Midways were the
first US ships ordered that were designed from the start as being too
wide to fit through the Panama canal.

(The following is more useless information from someone with too much
time on their hands, because its raining and I can't go fishing.
Aviation content? Yes the BB's carried scout planes, and were on the
way to the pacific to shout down jap naval aircraft.)Yes before anyone
asks the Iowa Class BB's could and did go through the Panama Canal. I
know the New Jersey was the first through the canal going through on 7
Jan 1944. The Iowa sailed from Norfolk (?) on 2 Jan 44 but it probably
took 7 days to get to the Canal so most likely it was the 2d one
through. The Wisconsin went through at the end of Sep '44 followed by
the Missouri on 18 Nov '44. The canal locks are officially 33 meters
(108.26 feet) wide and the battleships are supposed to be 108 feet 2
inches (or 108.66 feet) at the water line. Tight fit ?

Go here to see more on the New Jersey's last trip through the canal:

http://www.czbrats.com/CuPA/Jimpics/ussnj.htm

Dave

And the time lapse at Miraflores Locks at
http://www.pancanal.com/eng/photo/jersey-animation.html

Tom Debski

Peter Stickney wrote:

snip of loads of good info

Holly Hills, who flew 'em after he returned to the Navy after flying
in the RCAF, they never could find a Carrier Skipper who'd let them
come aboard his ship in any manner other than a crane.

Pete, you know where, what and when Holly flew in the RCAF?

Ok, thanks Peter, I do appreciate it...I guess I got confused and
thought that he had flown P2V's in Canada...then I noticed that
you mentioned 'P2V's in the Navy' and knowing that Canada's Navy
didn't have them...thought I'd check.

Thanks much sir, you're a veritable warehouse of info!.
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

In article ,
on Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:47:18 -0400,
Bob McKellar attempted to say .....


"R Leonard" wrote in message
oups.com...
Syd Bottomley did two traps and two launches in a PBJ on Shangri-La in
November 1944.

Rich


I know quite well what a PBJ is, but I just can't break the habit of
thinking "peanut butter & jelly" every time I see one mentioned.


Not crunchie I hope ?

--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.