Once again-Threshold, The Blue Angels Experience

Allen- In VT-10 the T-2 was the All Weather Radial Interceptor! BRBR

'Mississippi Mig' when at Meridian.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Jake- With them
all being retired, I would love to get a hold of one for the airshow
circuit. BRBR

No kidding. I think one, w/o wing tanks, some canopy mods, lose the POS
electircal system, would make a great air racer.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

On 09 Jan 2004 22:31:10 GMT, nt (Krztalizer) wrote:

I wonder how a Tweet would do in "combat" with a Buckeye? Anyone ever see
these two go mano a mano?

Advantage Buckeye - it at least has a hook it can use for close quarter combat.

Well, the Tweet is decidedly lacking in weapons, so the hook is
probably viable. But if we're just talking maneuverability, I wouldn't
discount the Cessna. That big square wing will flat generate some
turn. The problem would largely be in excess power--ol' P-sub-s.

Once slow, it would be a question of who could keep flying. It would
definitely be a low-speed fight and except for first moves, largely
horizontal. Stall speed of the Tweet, about 72 knots. The wiley Tweet
driver should probably pull the spoiler circuit breaker (those little
panels on the top of the engine intakes that disrupt airflow over the
tail to give stall warning buffet)--that would let you milk another
four or five knots slower. Then, judicious use of flaps to get a bit
more turn rate at yet lower speed.....

Now, if we went with AT-37 with those non-afterburning J85s to replace
the J-69s, then it's no question the Tweet goes vertical and has the
Buckeye for lunch.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Pechs1 wrote:
Jake- With them
all being retired, I would love to get a hold of one for the airshow
circuit. BRBR

No kidding. I think one, w/o wing tanks, some canopy mods, lose the POS
electircal system, would make a great air racer.

There's at least one civvy-owned Thunder Guppy flying, as I recall from
an article in the EAA's Sport Aviation. Owned by a doctor.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote...

Once slow, it would be a question of who could keep flying. It would
definitely be a low-speed fight and except for first moves, largely
horizontal. Stall speed of the Tweet, about 72 knots. The wiley Tweet
driver should probably pull the spoiler circuit breaker (those little
panels on the top of the engine intakes that disrupt airflow over the
tail to give stall warning buffet)--that would let you milk another
four or five knots slower. Then, judicious use of flaps to get a bit
more turn rate at yet lower speed.....

It's been a while since I flew the Buckeye (and never flew the Tweet), but IIRC
the light-weight stall speed was around 80 knots with flaps down. One problem
would be that the T-2 had a 3-position flap lever (Up, 1/2, Full), so "milking"
the flaps down (a great slow-speed tactic in the A-4) would not be possible.

OTOH, the Buckeye's relative excess power would likely allow it to use the
vertical at near-Tweet speeds, allowing it to keep up (or back) with the Tweet.

OTOOH, if the T-2 had its guns installed, it would trade weight and
maneuverability for actual weapons! :-)

As you say, it would be an interesting fight!


Now, if we went with AT-37 with those non-afterburning J85s to replace
the J-69s, then it's no question the Tweet goes vertical and has the
Buckeye for lunch.

Yeah... same engines as the T-2C; much smaller airframe!

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:28:54 -0600, "Jake Donovan"
wrote:

I was in and out of Edwards so fast that I never got time to give you a
ring.

I figured as much. You should have been coming down here to Palm
Desert, though. It was so cold in Lancaster at Christmas that we came
back a day early just to warm up. Not that there's much action here
except for the Blues at El Centro, though.

We're under the departure path for Bermuda Dunes and there's a
bugsmasher droning overhear right now. We've got the windows open,
it's so nice. I think it's going to be in the low 80s, with a very
slight breeze. Perfectly clear and good flying weather, I suppose.
When I hear them overhead in the summer I start thinking about density
altitude. Those 118-degF days kind of lift the airport up from sea
level.

I almost misread your comment bout A37's. I am either getting lazy eye or
just old. I thought it said T-37s. Yikes!

We had a T-37 at Dryden (I wrote my first paper about it, in fact) and
I thought for years that so did AFFTC. It must have taken me two or
three years to discover that their pretty white A-37s weren't Tweety
Birds.

Our Tweet was spun in, in about 1983, I think. I saw the crash site
photos and the wreckage was just classic, really characteristic of an
airplane that came down flat, in planform.

Did you run into Gallager at TPS? He use to get a real hard time from
students when they found out who his bother was.

I've met him and we've chatted a few times. His brother joined him at
the Friday luncheon one year and all the rest of us got to listen to
everyone in the area laughing continuously. His brother didn't bring
a watermelon or anything, though.

Going to SETP can be kind of discouraging when I see all these pilots
and FTEs that I met as captains or lieutenants when they were students
at the TPSs wearing eagles and stars. Then a couple years later and
they're all with contractors or airlines, it seems. Time keeps
marching on, I guess.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

John R Weiss wrote:
"Ed Rasimus" wrote...

As you say, it would be an interesting fight!

And when you were done, having waxed the tweet all day, you could stand
next to it and urinate into it's cockpit.

Could you imagine an A-4 and a Tweet parked next to each other? They'd
have different altimeter settings.

In article , wrote:

The T-2 guys weren't around when I tried to set the F-16
cockpit on fire a day or two later, though.


I don't remember hearing this one, Mary.
Care to elucidate?

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

An old thread but...

....many years ago, 'twas a manhood issue between Navy and Air Force PUIs at
happy hours all over the southwest. Your IP may have been having your ass
over the IC but you were "somebody" next to the Tweet at the hold-short --
particularly if you were in a TA-4.

"nafod40" wrote in message
...
John R Weiss wrote:
"Ed Rasimus" wrote...

As you say, it would be an interesting fight!

And when you were done, having waxed the tweet all day, you could stand
next to it and urinate into it's cockpit.

Could you imagine an A-4 and a Tweet parked next to each other? They'd
have different altimeter settings.