WW II - Diesel birds?

"old hoodoo" wrote in message
news:EO7me.74275$yV4.25134@okepread03...


Cougar wrote:
Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

140 Ju-86D's.

276 Bv-138's. All used the Junkers Jumo 205

These were not used due to gas shortages.

I think the Ju-86's might have been an attempt to use the diesels
to see how they would work out in service (better engines replaced them)
and perhaps the Bv-138 used them due to their intended use in conjunction
with naval vessels.

The Ju 86s were a combination of two hopes - greater range, and greater
power from the diesels. But the lack of acceleration killed this off, as
even in?1936? it was clear that the diesel-engined Ju 86s were 'easy meat'
compared to the petrol variant. As an earlier poster reported, where
altitude was needed, not acceleration, then diesel-engined variants had a
future - but when fighters could reach those altitudes, it was again the end
of the diesel.

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of flying
model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period so equipped.


Rich

"R Leonard" wrote in news:1117507544.101576.304210
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of flying
model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period so equipped.

Many model airplane engines today are still two-stroke diesels. They start
with a glow plug and continue running after starting just the way big
diesels do.

Dave in San Diego

"R Leonard" wrote:

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of flying
model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period so equipped.


Rich

Sure...aren't most model a/c engines Diesel?...I've had several
way back when I was young...(in the fifties) they all had
glo-plugs for starting and none had an ignition system...mine
were all two stroke cycle Diesels... much simpler.
--


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:35:22 GMT, Gord Beaman
wrote:

"R Leonard" wrote:

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of flying
model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period so equipped.


Rich

Sure...aren't most model a/c engines Diesel?...I've had several
way back when I was young...(in the fifties) they all had
glo-plugs for starting and none had an ignition system...mine
were all two stroke cycle Diesels... much simpler.

I had 'em, too. They did function on the same principle as diesels,
but were powered by a form of gasoline. They were not powered by
diesel fuel.

The only aircraft trying it today, that I know of, are the Diamond
people. Personally, I'd like to see them "pull it off." Time will
tell.

Bill Kambic

Dave in San Diego wrote:
Many model airplane engines today are still two-stroke diesels. They
start
with a glow plug and continue running after starting just the way big
diesels do.

Close, but for clarification:

o There are diesel model engines today. They run at a higher
compression than glow engines, and run on diesel fuel, rather than glow
fuel, which is basically a methanol/oil mix. Typically, they don't have
glow plugs.

o Glow engines, although they appear to run on the heat of compression,
won't continue running without a hot glow plug filament. (After the
engine is running, and battery voltage is removed, the filament
continues to glow from the heat of ignition, the ignition having been
caused by the glowing filament.)

--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)
Surplus (For sale or trade):

"John Miller" wrote in message
...
Dave in San Diego wrote:
Many model airplane engines today are still two-stroke diesels. They
start
with a glow plug and continue running after starting just the way big
diesels do.

Close, but for clarification:

o There are diesel model engines today. They run at a higher
compression than glow engines, and run on diesel fuel, rather than glow
fuel, which is basically a methanol/oil mix. Typically, they don't have
glow plugs.

o Glow engines, although they appear to run on the heat of compression,
won't continue running without a hot glow plug filament. (After the
engine is running, and battery voltage is removed, the filament
continues to glow from the heat of ignition, the ignition having been
caused by the glowing filament.)


Glow plugs were used on gasoline engines long before the
spark plug was invented. On early engines the glow plug
had to be heated with a blowlamp before the engine
could be started. The plug itself was a copper or
brass rod that protruded into the cyliner.

Keith




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wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:35:22 GMT, Gord Beaman
wrote:

"R Leonard" wrote:

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of flying
model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period so equipped.


Rich

Sure...aren't most model a/c engines Diesel?...I've had several
way back when I was young...(in the fifties) they all had
glo-plugs for starting and none had an ignition system...mine
were all two stroke cycle Diesels... much simpler.

I had 'em, too. They did function on the same principle as diesels,
but were powered by a form of gasoline. They were not powered by
diesel fuel.


Yes, thanks Bill...I knew that they didn't use diesel fuel,
smells much more potent to me...someone mentioned here that they
use the heated filament as a hot-spot for ignition (for the
running phase) rather than compression heat (as in a true diesel)
which makes sense.

--


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
Sorry for jumping in late - I'm replying to Bill Kambic, too.
(No Offence, Bill, Finger Trouble on my part)

Gord Beaman wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:35:22 GMT, Gord Beaman
wrote:

"R Leonard" wrote:

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane
engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of
flying model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period
so equipped.


Rich

Sure...aren't most model a/c engines Diesel?...I've had several
way back when I was young...(in the fifties) they all had
glo-plugs for starting and none had an ignition system...mine
were all two stroke cycle Diesels... much simpler.

I had 'em, too. They did function on the same principle as diesels,
but were powered by a form of gasoline. They were not powered by
diesel fuel.

Model Airplane Glow Fuel is usually Methanol, with something (Usually
Castor Oil) added to make it lubricate better. High performance
fuels used to have Nitromethane added in as well. I don't know if
they still do that.

AFAIK, the model diesels did run on kerosene.
I've never run one, but I've seen a couple. Neat little widgets.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between them and a glow engine
in construction, save for the head. Instead of a glow plug, they've
got a screw that adjusts an opposing "piston", allowing you to change
the combustion chamber volume and therefore the compression ratio.




Yes, thanks Bill...I knew that they didn't use diesel fuel,
smells much more potent to me...someone mentioned here that they
use the heated filament as a hot-spot for ignition (for the
running phase) rather than compression heat (as in a true diesel)
which makes sense.

That's the way I understand it. The glow plug's wire must not
transfer heat to the head very well.



--
Pete Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee.

AFAIK the glow wire is made of/plated with platinum - some kind of catalytic
effect on methanol keeps the wire hot.

In article ,
(J DUDLEY) wrote:

power from the diesels. But the lack of acceleration killed this off,
as even in?1936? it was clear that the diesel-engined Ju 86s were 'easy
meat' compared to the petrol variant. As an earlier poster reported,
where altitude was needed, not acceleration, then diesel-engined
variants had a future - but when fighters could reach those altitudes,
it was again the end of the diesel.

Yes - the high-altitude variant was moderately successful for a while,
then some Spitfires were stripped down until they could make the altitude.
That stopped German reece over the UK mainland until they got Arado 234s.

---
John Dallman, , HTML mail is treated as probable spam.