Canard or Mooney

Dave S explained on 5/4/2008 :
Linton Yarbrough wrote:


To make matters worser, I can't build one so I have to take someone
else's work. but the numbers of successful Cozys is a testament to
the design. plus, you get to install a rotary-Wankel; this is good?

The Cozy and the velocity were designed and intended to be used with a
"certified" horizontally opposed air cooled engine. Some enterprising
experimenters have used the rotary/wankel engine, with varying degrees of
success.

Dave

Dave I don't need varying degrees of success. I guess as the Capt said
if you want to tinker, maintain and build, then go EXP.

Maybe my next assessment is Mooney vs. ???

Linton wrote:
Dave S explained on 5/4/2008 :
Linton Yarbrough wrote:


To make matters worser, I can't build one so I have to take someone
else's work. but the numbers of successful Cozys is a testament to
the design. plus, you get to install a rotary-Wankel; this is good?

The Cozy and the velocity were designed and intended to be used with a
"certified" horizontally opposed air cooled engine. Some enterprising
experimenters have used the rotary/wankel engine, with varying degrees
of success.

Dave

Dave I don't need varying degrees of success. I guess as the Capt said
if you want to tinker, maintain and build, then go EXP.

Maybe my next assessment is Mooney vs. ???



Cirrus, Cessna (Columbia), Piper, and of course, Beechcraft.

Morgans wrote:


Hint: almost all of the lost fuel economy is lost in the form of lots of
heat radiating from the engine, mainly the exhaust gasses.

The inefficiency is derived from the long, shallow "combustion chamber"
formed by the rotor at its top dead center. Flame front progression is
slow to advance, resulting in slightly incomplete combustion, and
results in more heat going out the pipe, rather than being turned into
motion.

I would hope that I know this. I've built a rotary and had it running on
an airframe, alas not without problems (not with the rotary itself, but
part of a builders learning curve)

Dave

"Dave S" wrote

I would hope that I know this. I've built a rotary and had it running on an
airframe, alas not without problems (not with the rotary itself, but part of a
builders learning curve)

Then you are well aware of the problem of dealing with all of the excess heat
the rotary produces.

I am not an anti auto engine person; far from it. I like some of the things the
rotary brings to the table, in fact.

I am not sure that I would want to have to deal with the problems, though some,
including you, have been willing to.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Dave S" wrote

I would hope that I know this. I've built a rotary and had it running on
an airframe, alas not without problems (not with the rotary itself, but
part of a builders learning curve)

Then you are well aware of the problem of dealing with all of the excess
heat the rotary produces.

I am not an anti auto engine person; far from it. I like some of the
things the rotary brings to the table, in fact.

I am not sure that I would want to have to deal with the problems, though
some, including you, have been willing to.
--
Jim in NC
That does sum it up. The rotaries just take a lot more dedication that I'll
ever have.

Peter

test, can't seem to post as get error from Google


On May 3, 9:35 am, Linton Yarbrough wrote:
I don't get the reason for the Cozy or the Velocity (which isn't selling
anyway) from the standpoint of speed, comfort, etc. The $$$ come out the
same for the most part and you don't have composite issues or trouble
getting things fixed. Pusher/tractor preferences aside, am I missing
something that would or does make one of the canards a better purchase?

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On May 12, 6:12 am, jsbougher wrote:
test, can't seem to post as get error from Google

On May 3, 9:35 am, Linton Yarbrough wrote:

I don't get the reason for the Cozy or the Velocity (which isn't selling
anyway) from the standpoint of speed, comfort, etc. The $$$ come out the
same for the most part and you don't have composite issues or trouble
getting things fixed. Pusher/tractor preferences aside, am I missing
something that would or does make one of the canards a better purchase?

Comments from a Velocity owner and aeronautical engineer who also
didn't have time to build, so bought instead. Additional comment is
that my Dad has a Mooney 201 that I've flown quite a bit so I think
I'm fairly well placed to at least comment on your question.

For me, there were a few big drivers for the Velocity.
1) Stall characteristics - I can pull the throttle, slow to stall
speed, roll into a 45 degree bank and pull the stick to my stomach and
nothing happens. I know this isn't an issue for "good" pilots, but
the records are littered with stall/spins. I'm human and make
mistakes. Whether rational or not, the stall/spin is one of my
biggest fears.
2) Maintenance / avionics - with a homebuilt, I can do everything
myself outside of the "annual". This has helped with the nuisance
issues, but I still use the local A&P for a lot of work.
Additionally, I have access to cutting edge development that is too
expensive or simply not available to certified aircraft. Example is
my Trutrak 2 axis autopilot / ADI. I absolutely love it and my Dad
can't put it in his Mooney without a LOT of effort if at all.
3) Factory support / aircraft complexity - factory support may not be
as good as Mooney, but in the experimental world the ability to get
factory check out and factory annual is a big deal. Also note that
the Velocity can perform extremely well as a VERY simple airplane. My
plane is fixed prop, fixed gear and keeps us with a 201. My plane is
more basic from a maintenance perspective than a Cessna 172 and was it
a simple transition from that plane.
4) Useful load - I can put myself, my wife, both kids, the dog and a
weekends worth of luggage into it and still easily cover 300-400
miles.

Jeff

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jsbougher wrote:
Google sucks and won't let me post remainder of story. If you're
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It let you post 4 times in 10 minutes.