Which sustainer system would you chose for your sailplane?

On Saturday, September 29, 2012 1:41:13 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Dne sobota, 29. september 2012 02:17:14 UTC+2 je oseba Renny napisala:

On Friday, September 28, 2012 6:00:43 PM UTC-6, (unknown) wrote:



On Monday, September 24, 2012 4:23:59 PM UTC-7, Renny wrote:







On Monday, September 24, 2012 4:53:12 PM UTC-6, Greg Arnold wrote: On 9/24/2012 3:39 PM, Renny wrote: Here's the URL for a PDF brochure that was handed out at the 2012 Reno Convention on the FES. Hopefully,















Renny, so you're running about 170 Amps or so. Your motor and esc need some cooling, so how is that accomplished? And then you must have a way to automatically override throttle if lipos approach 70 to 80% drained?







Motor cooling is handled via a small electric fan forward of the rudder pedals, an air vent in the nose cone that allows outside air to help cool the motor (and the cockpit), and 3 electric fans on the shelf behind the pilot's seat to cool the controller. When the batteries get low, warnings go off on the FCU, and I would then throttle back and turn off the FES. There is no automatic shutdown of the FES which allows the pilot to keep the FES running if there is an emergency situation. Thx - Renny



On our latest instalations, we manage to arrange cooling also without electric fan infront of pedals. Motor itself has bigger centrifugal ventilator at back side!



Regards, Luka

Luka,

It sounds like a number of incremental changes have been made to the FES system that have not yet been posted to your web site. Could you write a post detailing these changes and perhaps also let us know what's coming in the near future? Thanks,

SLB

On 9/29/2012 8:42 AM, slbair wrote:


Motor cooling is handled via a small electric fan forward of the rudder pedals, an air vent in the nose cone that allows outside air to help cool the motor (and the cockpit), and 3 electric fans on the shelf behind the pilot's seat to cool the controller. When the batteries get low, warnings go off on the FCU, and I would then throttle back and turn off the FES. There is no automatic shutdown of the FES which allows the pilot to keep the FES running if there is an emergency situation. Thx - Renny



On our latest instalations, we manage to arrange cooling also without electric fan infront of pedals. Motor itself has bigger centrifugal ventilator at back side!



Regards, Luka

Luka,

It sounds like a number of incremental changes have been made to the FES system that have not yet been posted to your web site. Could you write a post detailing these changes and perhaps also let us know what's coming in the near future? Thanks,

SLB


Luka:

Since the prop now automatically stops in same position each time, does
this mean that the cross section shape of the fuselage at the nose no
longer has to be circular, but instead could be oval like on many
gliders? This would require the spinner to be oval -- does an oval
spinner shape present problems?

I second the idea of better information in one place on the web page.
Right now, anyone wanting accurate information must be a sleuth who
reads multiple webpages, who reads a PDF brochure, and who peruses RAS
postings by Luka and others. Sherlock Holmes, we need you!

I am putting together a list of all LAK owners in the USA and, when
finished, will email all owners with information of the FES installation,
expected cost, location, and expected installation time.

I have the list together (19 US owners!) but, unfortunately, the SSA website
will only allow me to get contact information for 5 members per day.
Therefore, it will take me another 3 or 4 days to get the message out to
prospective users. Hopefully, I can get the requisite 4 people to get the
group rate that Luka offered and I posted originally. I've already heard
from two prospects and, of course, myself.

Keep the discussion going!


"Renny" wrote in message
...
On Friday, September 28, 2012 6:00:43 PM UTC-6, (unknown) wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2012 4:23:59 PM UTC-7, Renny wrote:

On Monday, September 24, 2012 4:53:12 PM UTC-6, Greg Arnold wrote: On
9/24/2012 3:39 PM, Renny wrote: Here's the URL for a PDF
brochure that was handed out at the 2012 Reno Convention on the FES.
Hopefully,



Renny, so you're running about 170 Amps or so. Your motor and esc need
some cooling, so how is that accomplished? And then you must have a way
to automatically override throttle if lipos approach 70 to 80% drained?

Motor cooling is handled via a small electric fan forward of the rudder
pedals, an air vent in the nose cone that allows outside air to help cool
the motor (and the cockpit), and 3 electric fans on the shelf behind the
pilot's seat to cool the controller. When the batteries get low, warnings go
off on the FCU, and I would then throttle back and turn off the FES. There
is no automatic shutdown of the FES which allows the pilot to keep the FES
running if there is an emergency situation. Thx - Renny

Dne sobota, 29. september 2012 18:16:36 UTC+2 je oseba Greg Arnold napisala:
On 9/29/2012 8:42 AM, slbair wrote:





Motor cooling is handled via a small electric fan forward of the rudder pedals, an air vent in the nose cone that allows outside air to help cool the motor (and the cockpit), and 3 electric fans on the shelf behind the pilot's seat to cool the controller. When the batteries get low, warnings go off on the FCU, and I would then throttle back and turn off the FES. There is no automatic shutdown of the FES which allows the pilot to keep the FES running if there is an emergency situation. Thx - Renny







On our latest instalations, we manage to arrange cooling also without electric fan infront of pedals. Motor itself has bigger centrifugal ventilator at back side!







Regards, Luka



Luka,



It sounds like a number of incremental changes have been made to the FES system that have not yet been posted to your web site. Could you write a post detailing these changes and perhaps also let us know what's coming in the near future? Thanks,



SLB





Luka:



Since the prop now automatically stops in same position each time, does

this mean that the cross section shape of the fuselage at the nose no

longer has to be circular, but instead could be oval like on many

gliders? This would require the spinner to be oval -- does an oval

spinner shape present problems?



I second the idea of better information in one place on the web page.

Right now, anyone wanting accurate information must be a sleuth who

reads multiple webpages, who reads a PDF brochure, and who peruses RAS

postings by Luka and others. Sherlock Holmes, we need you!


Dear Greg,

Your thinking is correct! For Silent we are using now already slightly oval - eliptic shape of spinner at fuselage front cut. Small amount of ovality does not present any problem, but need to explore possibilities of even higher ovality...
We will try to publish latest data and achievements on our website more regulary. Now pilots can sigh in for our newsletter, where those informations will be published when it will be apropriate.
Sign in for newsletter:
http://www.front-electric-sustainer.com/newsletter.php

Kind regards,

Luka Znidarsic, FES development

Anyone considering a jet (turbine) in their sailplane should read up on the R/C experience with these engines. I have not owned one personally, but I have read a lot about the experience. The big advantages are 1) power - they produce a huge amount of thrust 2) running reliability - once running, they rarely quit and 3) relatively low weight for the amount of thrust available. The disadvantages are 1) they are very inefficient and consume a huge amount of fuel very quickly 2) spool time - you have to think ahead of these engines since power will not be available the second you hit the throttle. This may be less of an issue in a glider vs. a R/C "rocket" with high wing loading :-)

Interesting that the critics of electric power always bring up the battery hazard issue. As if *gasoline* is not hazardous!!! Don't get Elon Musk started on that one :-) With a turbine you basically have a blowtorch installed in your aircraft! Not hazardous at all :-) There are *many* accounts of literal 'crash and burn' accidents with turbine powered R/C jets. In a crash, the high temperatures in the turbine mixed with spilled gasoline have predictable (firey) results! R/C jet owners have a fire extinguisher ready at all times.

The advantages of electric power have been well stated in this thread. The main disadvantages are weight, (relatively) low energy density and cost.

Personally, I think the future is electric. We've seen electric power almost completely displace gas on R/C fields. The advantages are just too compelling. The disadvantages lessen every year as newer, better technology comes online. There will always be a place for IC engines, but they are now becoming a niche in R/C flying, as I expect they will eventually in many other modes of transport.

Also interesting that we've been using the FES-style power arrangement in R/C self-launching gliders for many years now. It's really great to see it come online in the full-size community.

Gary Hethcoat
Northern California Soaring Association
(and long-time R/C pilot :-)

Jet - for the noise it makes...whoooaa

If I could get someone to retrofit my 30 year old Pegase101A with the FES sustainer, I would do it tomorrow

Since that is not available I will play PowerBall tonight and order a new one over the weekend.

But seriously - will FES have a presence at the convention in Feb? - someday I will have a sailplane with FES.

WH1

Does your Pegase have a circular cross section at the nose? Contact FES
at http://www.front-electric-sustainer.com/
and ask them if your glider is a good candidate.


On 1/6/2016 10:46 AM, wrote:
If I could get someone to retrofit my 30 year old Pegase101A with the FES sustainer, I would do it tomorrow

Since that is not available I will play PowerBall tonight and order a new one over the weekend.

But seriously - will FES have a presence at the convention in Feb? - someday I will have a sailplane with FES.

WH1

--
Dan, 5J

circular nose is no longer required...as the FES Discus and Ventus show. The FES Controller will align the nosecone with the rest of the fuselage after shutdown.

Last convention in Reno, Leo had a Silent FES there and TN is closer to SC than to Reno.

The Silent FES was nice. I like the LED strobe on the vertical too.