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Dude, you're NOT getting it!!!
The engines are worn out!
The engines will not make manufacturer's TBO due to the way they are
used.
They are constantly cycled between full throttle to idle every minute of
an aerobatic sequence for as long as the pilot practices or competes.

Same question applies as that is what TBO is.

Perhaps I should have said that the engines need to be rebuilt after
600-700 hours.

Morgans wrote:

True, but what does that have to do with why pilots flying aerobatics are
required to wear parachutes? Are you saying this is not needed, because it
is just as safe as other GA?

In the country where I fly it's not required. I've never understood why
it is in the USA. (Don't get me wrong: I don't say that it's a bad idea
to wear one.)

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:

Statistically, aerobatics is even safer than "normal" flight.

Seriously, I can't see how that could be true. The same things that a
regular flight can still happen, and added to that, sometimes the wing
is
over stressed and folds, or there is spacial disoreintation, and flight
finds ground, or......

Obviously you don't fly aerobatics yourself.

True, but what does that have to do with why pilots flying aerobatics are
required to wear parachutes? Are you saying this is not needed, because it
is just as safe as other GA?

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:44:02 GMT, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

Sure, I understand that part, but where is there a Lycoming or FAA reference
that says an engine installed in an aerobatic engine has a shorter TBO? The
reason I ask is that, to my knowledge, all the Pitts drivers here in the UK
are operating on 1500 or so hours (mine's so short of that mark as to not
have to even worry about it for a while yet). No one has ever mentioned a
shorter TBO requirement and, even with binary throttle application like
you're talking about, I don't hear of too many of my colleagues having to do
any more maintenance than anyone else.

http://www.lycoming.textron.com/supp...s/SI1009AR.pdf

Look at any "A" engine and read note 6

Appears that 1400 hours is the maximum recommended TBO

TC

http://www.lycoming.textron.com/supp...Publications/s
erviceInstructions/SI1009AR.pdf

Look at any "A" engine and read note 6

6. The reliability and service life of engines can be detrimentally
affected if they are repeatedly operated at alternating high and low
power applications which cause extreme changes in cylinder temperatures.
Flight maneuvers which cause engine overspeed also contribute to
abnormal wear characteristics that tend to shorten engine life. These
factors must be considered to establish TBO of aerobatic engines;
therefore it is the responsibility of the operator to determine the
percentage of time the engine is used for aerobatics and establish his
own TBO. The maximum recommended is the time specified in this
instruction.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:

Statistically, aerobatics is even safer than "normal" flight.

Seriously, I can't see how that could be true. The same things that a
regular flight can still happen, and added to that, sometimes the wing
is
over stressed and folds, or there is spacial disoreintation, and
flight
finds ground, or......

Obviously you don't fly aerobatics yourself.

True, but what does that have to do with why pilots flying aerobatics are
required to wear parachutes? Are you saying this is not needed, because
it
is just as safe as other GA?

It is an FAA regulation and like many FAA regulations it makes no sense.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:18:46 GMT, john smith wrote:

Is it? Why would it be shorter than any other engine TBO? Do you have a
reference? If my engine's running out, I'd like to read up on it and find
out what's different.

Yes, hundreds of owners who fly competition aerobatics.
In competition aerobatics you are constantly and repeatedly going from
full throttle to idle. There is no in between setting.
The only time you fly at a given power setting for any length of time is
when you are flying from one contest to another.

Also maneuvers such as snap rolls produce some pretty stong forces on
the front seal and bearings when done at full power. That prop is
like a big gyroscope.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Dude, the thing I'm not getting is your assertion about the engine life and
condition because the experience I'm having with my own engine and those of
my Pitts colleagues here in the UK is not the same. Engines are making it
to 1500 hours and are not worn out at 500 or even 750 hours. If you've got
some genuine information regarding the life of the engine, I'm interested to
know it. If you don't, you're just speculating on hearsay.

Shawn

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Dude, you're NOT getting it!!!
The engines are worn out!
The engines will not make manufacturer's TBO due to the way they are
used.
They are constantly cycled between full throttle to idle every minute of
an aerobatic sequence for as long as the pilot practices or competes.

Same question applies as that is what TBO is.

Perhaps I should have said that the engines need to be rebuilt after
600-700 hours.

That's absolutely true, especially with metal props. Guys with metal props
have to really watch their gyros and keep a close eye on the seals.

Shawn

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:18:46 GMT, john smith wrote:

Is it? Why would it be shorter than any other engine TBO? Do you have
a
reference? If my engine's running out, I'd like to read up on it and
find
out what's different.

Yes, hundreds of owners who fly competition aerobatics.
In competition aerobatics you are constantly and repeatedly going from
full throttle to idle. There is no in between setting.
The only time you fly at a given power setting for any length of time is
when you are flying from one contest to another.

Also maneuvers such as snap rolls produce some pretty stong forces on
the front seal and bearings when done at full power. That prop is
like a big gyroscope.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Which is what I thought it was, John. Thanks. Our learned colleague
mentioned something around 600 hour TBO and I was looking for some reference
to that number in case I'd missed something that had been published
recently.

Cheers,
Shawn

"john smith" wrote in message
...
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/supp...Publications/s
erviceInstructions/SI1009AR.pdf

Look at any "A" engine and read note 6

6. The reliability and service life of engines can be detrimentally
affected if they are repeatedly operated at alternating high and low
power applications which cause extreme changes in cylinder temperatures.
Flight maneuvers which cause engine overspeed also contribute to
abnormal wear characteristics that tend to shorten engine life. These
factors must be considered to establish TBO of aerobatic engines;
therefore it is the responsibility of the operator to determine the
percentage of time the engine is used for aerobatics and establish his
own TBO. The maximum recommended is the time specified in this
instruction.