Removal of back seat?

Hi!

I have a 68' Arrow, and wonder if I can remove the back seat to allow some
bulky transportation.
Or is this seat some sort of stiffening of the airframe?

If I can, can I remove only the seatback? If so, how do I do this?
Any mod to make it easy to fold down and back up again with no tools? Like a
station wagon car's back seats....?

My back seat is in one piece, ie not twp seperate seats.

Thanks,

Frode

Depends on the plane. In the Mooney the POH says the pilot can remove
the seat.

I have a 68' Arrow, and wonder if I can remove the back seat to allow some
bulky transportation.
Or is this seat some sort of stiffening of the airframe?

Yep, that bench seat comes out -- but it will expose lots of stuff that
you probably don't want to drop things in...like your elevator and
rudder cable runs. (One reason I REALLY like the "bucket" back seats
in our '74 Piper PA28-235 Pathfinder. They literally pop out --
without tools -- in seconds, and leave a nice, flat, 3/4 inch plywood
floor.)

If I can, can I remove only the seatback? If so, how do I do this?

I don't see why you couldn't, although I suspect that the seatback is
pretty permanently attached to the seat bottom. Any mod you make is
going to have to be approved, which may not be a simple matter.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Rear seats in my 72 Arrow remove in seconds. As I recall, there are
four slots in the floor that accomodate four mating prongs on the seat
base. Again, if I recall correctly, push FORWARD on the whole seat
while lifting up. The 72 Arrow has two individual rear seats so may not
be the same but give it a try. No effect on the structure but might
want to consider weight and balance.

wrote:
Rear seats in my 72 Arrow remove in seconds. As I recall, there are
four slots in the floor that accomodate four mating prongs on the seat
base. Again, if I recall correctly, push FORWARD on the whole seat
while lifting up. The 72 Arrow has two individual rear seats so may not
be the same but give it a try. No effect on the structure but might
want to consider weight and balance.

In fact, it might be prudent to update the weight and balance section of the POH
with seats-in and seats-out weight calculations, unless your POH has some
other provision for flying without the seats.

Dave Butler wrote:

In fact, it might be prudent to update the weight and balance section of
the POH with seats-in and seats-out weight calculations, unless your
POH has some other provision for flying without the seats.

Please don't shoot me if this is a stupid question. G

Couldn't you simply calculate the weight and station (of the center of
the weight) of the seats, do the same with the replacement items, use
them in the CG calcs, and be good to go?

For example:

Remove x pounds @ arm y

Add x pounds @ arm y


Am I thinking correctly?

In fact, it might be prudent to update the weight and balance section
of the POH with seats-in and seats-out weight calculations, unless
your POH has some other provision for flying without the seats.


Please don't shoot me if this is a stupid question. G

Couldn't you simply calculate the weight and station (of the center of
the weight) of the seats, do the same with the replacement items, use
them in the CG calcs, and be good to go?

Yes, exactly. I'm just saying you might want to have that calculation in the
aircraft POH rather than on the back of an envelope. Seems to me the aircraft
was (probably) certified with seats in, and you are making a modification by
removing the seats, and that should be documented on the W&B section of the POH.

Maybe I'm just over-cautious, but I'm pretty sure I've heard of doing exactly this.

Probably no difference as far as safety of flight, just a documentation difference.

Dave

Dave Butler wrote:
In fact, it might be prudent to update the weight and balance section
of the POH with seats-in and seats-out weight calculations, unless
your POH has some other provision for flying without the seats.



Please don't shoot me if this is a stupid question. G

Couldn't you simply calculate the weight and station (of the center of
the weight) of the seats, do the same with the replacement items, use
them in the CG calcs, and be good to go?


Yes, exactly. I'm just saying you might want to have that calculation in
the aircraft POH rather than on the back of an envelope. Seems to me the
aircraft was (probably) certified with seats in, and you are making a
modification by removing the seats, and that should be documented on the
W&B section of the POH.

Maybe I'm just over-cautious, but I'm pretty sure I've heard of doing
exactly this.

Probably no difference as far as safety of flight, just a documentation
difference.


The key is to see what the certification standard is for your aircraft.
I don't know about Arrows but in the 182 I had and the Bonanza I have
now all seats except the pilots seat are standard items, the pilots seat
is a required item for certification, it cannot be removed and then
legally flown. The equipment list from Cessna showed all items and a
column that had either an R, S or O, for required, standard and
optional. Only the required stuff has to be in the plane. I carry a
weight and balance sheet with three configurations for my Bo. First is
the standard one with all seats in, second has one rear seat removed and
third has both rear seats removed. I weighed the seats myself and use
actual weight, in the case of my Bo each rear seat weighs 22 pounds. In
the 182 I also had three configurations on the W+B. All seats in, rear
seat out and rear and copilot seat removed. To be legal a logbook entry
has to be made but I never bothered with that.

They would probably need a 337 to remove the seat since the plane was
not certified without a seat (just like only some planes can fly w/o
the doors). However, some planes are certified to fly w/o the back
seat. My Mooney POH specifically talks about flying with the rear seat
out. I'm not sure about the Piper.

-Robert

Rear seats in my 72 Arrow remove in seconds. As I recall, there are
four slots in the floor that accomodate four mating prongs on the seat
base. Again, if I recall correctly, push FORWARD on the whole seat
while lifting up. The 72 Arrow has two individual rear seats so may not
be the same but give it a try.

Nope, totally different. Frode's bench seat doesn't come out the same
way as our bucket seats.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"