What to do about North Korea...?

Jose wrote:

But the islamo-facist scenario is more profound, longer lasting, and
insidious. There are, what, a billion+ followers of Islam, the large
majority of which don't much care for what they think Western culture
is. There are probably many hundreds of thousands who would eagerly
take up arms against us, and many thousands who would volunteer to die
against the "crusaders and jews".


The widespread (though perhaps not strongly felt) Arab support for the
first invasion, after the little Kuwait incident, argues against this
rather bigoted position. It seems to me that our response to the 9-11
vandals has created or at least amplified a lot of the anti-US
sentiment, and made it far more difficult to mitigate that sentiment in
the next fifty years.

We get stung by a wasp.
In retalliation, we find a hornet nest and beat it to a pulp, with
predictable results, while shouting "Bad bees, bad bees!"

I've been stung by a wasp and the sting was gone a few days later. I
don't recall having to go to any funerals for it, as I did after 9/11.
And so many others did as well. I've had to clean up vandalism from my
store. While a pain and an insurance hassle, that doesn't matter a damn
compared to burying someone you love. Too bad you can equate the two so
easily. Have a nice day.

Dan Luke wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote:


What a bunch of crap.


Couldn't very well call it a bunch of left wing crap, could you?

Wouldn't make any difference any more than distinguishing cow manure
from horse manure.


I'm sure you remember...

"Mission accomplished!"
- Banner welcoming George W. Bush aboard the USS Lincoln, May, 2003?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but in May 2003, the USS Lincoln *was*
returning home (to its home port in Washington). Its mission certainly
was acccomplished, and with pride. Please try to pay attention with a
little more care.


But now listen to the dean of American conservative journalism:

"One can't doubt that the American objective in Iraq has failed."
--Wm. F. Buckley, February, 2006

And who elected this genius "dean?" I missed that election.


It takes some very intense denial to see the invasion of Iraq as anything
but a grotesque blunder. Even serious American conservative thinkers are
beginning to admit this. Now, the harm done is becoming evident: American
power and international influence--squandered in Iraq--are in short supply
when needed to confront *real* threats.

Uh huh. So sorry to see a tyrant committing atrocities on his own
people disposed of to a courtroom, I see. Probably much easier for you
to turn your back on it and pretend otherwise. Conversely, I think it
is a good thing, no, a great thing, that someone who maintained
political control through rape rooms and lobbing off ears, not to
mention horrible God-awful unspeakable pain through torture is out of
the picture. Think how much you would want your wife, sister, mother,
daughter to be raped by henchman of the state to influence you because
you are "suspected" of being not completely loyal to a dictator.

Bob Fry wrote:

"Stubby" == Stubby writes:

Stubby I suspect our Special Ops crews are preparing for very
Stubby secret missions to disable many components of NK's threat.

I suspect you've absorbed too many action movies.

Special Ops crews are not superhuman, and the NK's are not some
3rd-world banana republic.

2nd world isolated starving trash heap, courtesey of its wonderful
leadership, would be more accurate.

I've been stung by a wasp and the sting was gone a few days later. I don't recall having to go to any funerals for it..

It was a metaphor. It was addressing our counterproductive response -
beating up a hornet's nest while shouting "bad bees".

I've had to clean up vandalism from my store. While a pain and an insurance hassle, that doesn't matter a damn compared to burying someone you love. Too bad you can equate the two so easily. Have a nice day.

Every death is tragic, and I have not been untouched by it either. But
using that murder for political gain, avenging a death by going to war
against those who did not commit the murder, is wrong, and will only
cause more tragedy in the future.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

("John" wrote)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but in May 2003, the USS Lincoln *was*
returning home (to its home port in Washington). Its mission certainly
was acccomplished, and with pride. Please try to pay attention with a
little more care.


I do pay attention!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in580661.shtml
The lie(s).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in614998.shtml
The truth.

The Pentagon lied to protect the president. If they lied over something this
stoooopid, don't you think they will also lie when it really matters? YES,
they will.


Montblack

Jay,

a POW camp
in Cuba?


There is a POW camp at Gitmo?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Dan Luke wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote:


What a bunch of crap.


Couldn't very well call it a bunch of left wing crap, could you?

Crap is crap. The source isn't relevant.

Matt

"John" wrote:

Dan Luke wrote:

[snip]

I'm sure you remember...

"Mission accomplished!"
- Banner welcoming George W. Bush aboard the USS Lincoln, May, 2003?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but in May 2003, the USS Lincoln *was*
returning home (to its home port in Washington). Its mission certainly
was acccomplished, and with pride. Please try to pay attention with a
little more care.

Utter baloney. The Bush appearance aboard the Lincoln was a cynically
arranged propaganda show, meant to pump up the President's image with the
lie that something of value to the U. S. had been accomplished in Iraq.

[snip]

It takes some very intense denial to see the invasion of Iraq as anything
but a grotesque blunder. Even serious American conservative thinkers are
beginning to admit this. Now, the harm done is becoming evident:
American power and international influence--squandered in Iraq--are in
short supply when needed to confront *real* threats.

Uh huh. So sorry to see a tyrant committing atrocities on his own people
disposed of to a courtroom, I see. Probably much easier for you to turn
your back on it and pretend otherwise. Conversely, I think it is a good
thing, no, a great thing, that someone who maintained political control
through rape rooms and lobbing off ears, not to mention horrible God-awful
unspeakable pain through torture is out of the picture. Think how much
you would want your wife, sister, mother, daughter to be raped by henchman
of the state to influence you because you are "suspected" of being not
completely loyal to a dictator.

That is a feeble attempt to dodge the real issue: America's security has
been profoundly harmed by the fiasco in Iraq. Beyond the wasted lives,
resources and diplomatic capital, our own National Intelligence Council has
concluded that the war has created a vast new terrorist training and
recruiting ground where none existed bfo
============================
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan13.html

Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the
opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national
intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the
best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are
not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will
therefore disperse to various other countries."
=============================

It is dishonest of Bush/Cheney apologists to pretend that the U. S. went to
Iraq to "save" its people from Saddam. Even worse is the apologists'
attempt to portray critics of the war as indifferent to that people's
suffering.

The world is full of evil dictators; it is not America's duty to depose them
by force and rebuild nations when they are gone--if indeed such
nation-building is even possible, which events in Iraq cast into extreme
doubt.

--
Dan

"These are exciting times for the Iraqi people!"
-George W. Bush

Jay Honeck wrote:
Uh oh:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?I50915D5D

The news is reporting that they've launched FOUR missiles now --
possibly one that can reach the U.S. mainland...

I wonder what our Air Force guys in South Korea are doing right now...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Greg Sheridan in The Australian July 05, 2006
Burma seeks nuclear weapons alliance with N Korea

BURMA'S military junta has attempted to buy nuclear weapons technology
from North Korea's rogue regime in an alliance that presents a
frightening new threat to regional security.
The US issued a heavy-handed warning to Burmese military dictator Than
Shwe to cease and desist all such activities after discovering
Rangoon's bid late last year.


The prospect of the two pariah states of Asia joining together has
alarmed Western intelligence agencies, with the US privately
circulating a draft resolution condemning Burma's actions for the UN
Security Council.


The terms of the resolution would say that Burma constituted a "threat
to peace and security".


This would be a Chapter Six resolution, which does not imply that the
Security Council would authorise the use of force against Burma or move

directly to sanctions. But it would be the first time Burma has been
formally censured by the Security Council. It is understood that no
nuclear material has been transferred.


North Korea, which is believed to possess six or seven nuclear weapons,

has engaged in tense brinkmanship with the US, recently threatening to
launch a new generation of Taepodong missile.


If the North Koreans are able to miniaturise their nuclear weapons
sufficiently, they will eventually be able to place them on Taepodong
missiles, which are capable of reaching some targets in the US and
Australia.


Intelligence sources confirmed to The Australian that the Burmese
military had a booming relationship with the North Korean military.
Burma and North Korea do not have formal diplomatic relations. These
were broken in 1983 when, in an act of state terrorism, the North
Koreans detonated a bomb in Rangoon which killed most of the visiting
South Korean cabinet.


But Than Shwe and the equally eccentric and reclusive North Korean
leader, Kim Jong-il, have been engaged in intensive proxy diplomacy
designed to re-establish formal diplomatic relations between the two
states.


Western intelligence agencies believe Burma gets surface-to-air
missiles, artillery and small arms from North Korea. The Burmese have
also asked the Koreans for Scud missile technology.


The highly secretive Burmese state maintains the biggest army in
Southeast Asia, with a regular military estimated at about half a
million people and a paramilitary force of some 100,000.


Diplomatic observers do not believe the US resolution at this stage
would pass at the Security Council because China would oppose and, if
necessary, veto it.


However, presenting it publicly would acutely embarrass Burma's
defenders, especially China.


The resolution makes no specific mention of Burma's nuclear ambitions.
Instead it focuses on Burma's human rights abuses, which led to the
outflow of large numbers of refugees. Because of the poor state of
Burma's health services, many of these refugees are HIV-positive.


Burma also threatens international security through its drug-growing
activities. Australian authorities believe much of the heroin sold in
Australia is grown in Burma.


Apart from China, which has deep strategic interests in Burma, some
Third World members of the Security Council may also object to a
resolution based mainly on the internal human rights record of a member

nation.


Burma has also made separate inquiries with Russia over the possibility

of developing a peaceful nuclear power industry. At different times the

Burmese have denied this. The Russians are


believed to have been unresponsive to the Burmese requests.


Their lack of embassies in each other's countries has not inhibited the

development of the military-to-military relationship.


This growing relationship is ofacute concern to Western intelligence.


Both Burma and North Korea have their chief external strategic
relationship with China.


China sees Burma as an important strategic asset.


Much Chinese diplomacy has centred on energy security and Burma offers
China substantial oil and gas reserves.


Burma also offers China strategic reach into the Indian Ocean through
access to its naval ports.


It also provides China with enhanced intelligence capabilities through
intelligence establishments, especially on the Burmese border with
India.


Burma's ruling military junta has become increasingly erratic and
unpredictable in recent years. Last year, it moved its entire capital
from Rangoon to Pyinmana in central Burma andbuilt a new capital,
virtually from scratch.


This was apparently because it feared a US attack on Rangoon, but the
timing of the move, which was scheduled to within a minute, was
reportedly determined by astrological readings.


At the same time as cracking down on the opposition National League for

Democracy, headed by imprisoned Nobel laureate Aung San Suu Kyi, the
Burmese regime has intensified a vicious war against the Karen and
other ethnic minorities.


The other nine members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations
are increasingly frustrated with Burma.


Malaysia's Foreign Minister, Syed Hamid, called last month for the UN
to take responsibility for encouraging the Rangoon junta towards
greater openness and moderation.


This call represents a humiliation for ASEAN and a realisation that the

strategy of reforming Burma through ASEAN membership has failed.


Some ASEAN leaders have asked US President George W.Bush to take a hard

line on Burma to help break the paralysis on political movement within
the country.


The Americans are considering convening a meeting of like-minded
nations to discuss Burma at ministerial level at this year's ASEAN
meetings, scheduled to take place in Kuala Lumpur later this month.


Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer has committed to attend
this meeting.


The Japanese and some members of ASEAN are likely to beinvited.


Mr Downer is also likely to meet Burma's Foreign Minister in Kuala
Lumpur.


Last November, the UN Security Council met privately for a briefing on
Burma from a member of the UN Secretariat, the first time the Security
Council had considered Burma, even informally.


The international mood is hardening against Burma and this could result

in renewed calls to expel it from ASEAN.

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||


Monk

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

The islamists, on the other hand, particularly the ones who have gone
over to the 99.99% extreme of their religion actually believe that dying
is a good thing if it is done in a way that kills infidels. If those
people ever get the bomb, I think they will use it if they get a chance.

That is why the situation in Pakistan is potentially far more dangerous
than either N. Korea or Iran.

Pakistan is a nuclear power *now*, and is only a quick coup away from
having radical Islamists in power. What will the U. S. do if we wake up
tomorrow to find Pervez Musharraf overthrown and the Mullahs in charge?
Certainly, our options will be restricted by the effort being wasted in
Iraq, and the re-emerging Taliban problem that that useless war has
permitted to rise in Afghanistan.

At a time when we need to be light on our feet, we are stuck in a tar-pit:

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling
us. We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian
agents. With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to
become the plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that.
[ ] The lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the
bureaucratic will to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension
of Dick Cheney, and the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell
combined to get us into a situation we never wanted to be in, a situation
no self-respecting nation ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to
get out of."

-John Derbyshire, National Review Online, June 12th, 2006

This same Derbyshire?

"Does it not occur to you liberals, not even
for a passing instant, that by purging all
sacred images, references, and words
from our public life, you are leaving us
with nothing but a cold temple presided
over by the Goddess of Reason • that
counterfeit deity who, as history has
proved time and time and time again,
inspires no affection, retains no loyalties,
soothes no grief, justifies no sacrifice,
gives no comfort, extends no charity,
displays no pity, and offers no hope,
except to the tiny cliques of fanatical
ideologues who tend her cold blue
flame." -- John Derbyshire
http://www.nationalreview.com/derbys...hire082503.asp

Looks like they left the door unlocked at the funny farm again.