PSA: Don't be rude on the radio

Jay Honeck wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

I can't comment too much on your experiences, but I will say this:
I've heard more rude and improper radio talk in the last two years
than I had in the previous ten.

I thought I just hadn't noticed it before...


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## CP-ASEL, AGI
## insert tail number here
## KHAO, KISZ
"There's still some duplication (i.e., several places where I say
close to the same thing twice, and also where I'm redundant :-)"
-- Daniel Mocsny

"RST" == RST Engineering writes:

RST At the risk of being rude on the newsgroups, you quoted the
RST whole g055@mned message for nine lousy lines of reply?

Jim, Jim, you never take the *risk* of being rude. You *always* are
rude. But we like it.

--
Why do bunches of people run from a shark when they see one, if
there is a bunch of people, and one of that shark, wouldn't it be
easy to just attack him and kick his ass?
- Jack Handey

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...

Why do bunches of people run from a shark when they see one, if
there is a bunch of people, and one of that shark, wouldn't it be
easy to just attack him and kick his ass?


If you're able to run from a shark you're on land and there's no need to run
at all.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 10, 2:35 am, buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.


I don't post here that often anymore, but the recent spat of posts
about pattern etiquette has got me going. I really would like to know
how this theory that just because you're doing touch and goes in the
pattern, means you can go ahead and cut off straight in traffic? The
only thing the FAA has to say, regulatory, regarding traffic patterns
is that all turns must be to the left, unless noted, AND take note of
91.113(g)

Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while landing,
have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on
the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to
force and aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed...

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?

On May 10, 11:29 am, "Allen" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...



On May 10, 2:35 am, buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

I don't post here that often anymore, but the recent spat of posts
about pattern etiquette has got me going. I really would like to know
how this theory that just because you're doing touch and goes in the
pattern, means you can go ahead and cut off straight in traffic? The
only thing the FAA has to say, regulatory, regarding traffic patterns
is that all turns must be to the left, unless noted, AND take note of
91.113(g)

Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while landing,
have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on
the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to
force and aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed...

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?

Maybe it would make more sense to announce position in minutes from
touchdown rather than miles.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

Maybe it would make more sense to announce position in minutes from
touchdown rather than miles.

That presumes you aren't trying to actually find him in the sky.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

The first time was when I was at a local uncontrolled field with one
of my students to introduce solf-field takeoffs and landings. When we
were turning downwind, I heard a Cirrus call "On the ILS at the outer
marker". I haven't flown any approaches for months, so I had no idea
how exactly far out he was. There were at least two other people in
the pattern, so instead of asking him to give a more accurate position
report, I just went on. Just before I got abeam the numbers on
downwind, the Cirrus guy called 3 miles out, so I told my student to
just do a short approach instead of extending which would have screwed
everyone else up.

I'm looking out the window like crazy to find this Cirrus guy but I
don't see him anywhere. Then suddenly I hear him say in a snappy voice
"Cessna on base at *** do you plan on cutting me off?" Startled, I
looked around but couldn't for the life of me see him. I responded
"uuhh, Cirrus on ILS I don't see you", then he snaps back
sarcastically, "oh 45 seconds before impact..."

I look right in front of me and there he is zooming by. I didn't
realize Cirrus's were so fast. He had to have been going more than 150
knots. I've turned short approaches in front of Seminoles when they
were on 3 mile ILS finals and it has never been a problem...

Anyways, the guy didn't have to be such a huge asshole. A busy pattern
is stressful enough, the ones coming in straight in can at least be a
little helpful, or at the VERY LEAST not act like a little baby when
things don't go their way.

Lemme get this straight! You are in instructor, which means you are
instrument rated, which means that you should know that outer markers are
typically at least five miles from the landing zone--so, if you can not
recall for a specific airport, you can still guess five miles. In addition,
you did not bother to maintain familiarity with the procedures at an airport
where you typically instruct, you failed to understant that the Cirrus had
travelled a substantial (probably between a third and a half) of the
distance to the runway, and then you turned in front of known traffic which
you did not see.

IMHO, your usenet handle is well chosen. If you were my instructor; the
landing would be a full stop, followed by a very firm "You're fired!" (That
is, of course, presuming that I was stricken speechless back when I refused
to turn base.)

Peter

On May 10, 11:49 am, Jose wrote:
Maybe it would make more sense to announce position in minutes from
touchdown rather than miles.

That presumes you aren't trying to actually find him in the sky.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Good point.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Flying Machine - http://pad39a.com/gene/
Because we fly, we envy no one.

On May 10, 10:20 am, "Peter Dohm" wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

The first time was when I was at a local uncontrolled field with one
of my students to introduce solf-field takeoffs and landings. When we
were turning downwind, I heard a Cirrus call "On the ILS at the outer
marker". I haven't flown any approaches for months, so I had no idea
how exactly far out he was. There were at least two other people in
the pattern, so instead of asking him to give a more accurate position
report, I just went on. Just before I got abeam the numbers on
downwind, the Cirrus guy called 3 miles out, so I told my student to
just do a short approach instead of extending which would have screwed
everyone else up.

I'm looking out the window like crazy to find this Cirrus guy but I
don't see him anywhere. Then suddenly I hear him say in a snappy voice
"Cessna on base at *** do you plan on cutting me off?" Startled, I
looked around but couldn't for the life of me see him. I responded
"uuhh, Cirrus on ILS I don't see you", then he snaps back
sarcastically, "oh 45 seconds before impact..."

I look right in front of me and there he is zooming by. I didn't
realize Cirrus's were so fast. He had to have been going more than 150
knots. I've turned short approaches in front of Seminoles when they
were on 3 mile ILS finals and it has never been a problem...

Anyways, the guy didn't have to be such a huge asshole. A busy pattern
is stressful enough, the ones coming in straight in can at least be a
little helpful, or at the VERY LEAST not act like a little baby when
things don't go their way.

Lemme get this straight! You are in instructor, which means you are
instrument rated, which means that you should know that outer markers are
typically at least five miles from the landing zone--so, if you can not
recall for a specific airport, you can still guess five miles. In addition,
you did not bother to maintain familiarity with the procedures at an airport
where you typically instruct, you failed to understant that the Cirrus had
travelled a substantial (probably between a third and a half) of the
distance to the runway, and then you turned in front of known traffic which
you did not see.



First off, I never said I did nothing wrong. I know I made a mistake
by turning in front of him. We all make mistakes, whether you're an
instructor or not. THE WHOLE POINT of the post was that the Cirrus guy
had to act like a pumpus ass. In my probably 2 years of instructing,
I've had maybe 3 run-ins similar to this, the other two were handled
professionally and were good learning experiences for me and my
students.

I knew the guy was 3 miles out, which is why I turned base early (I'm
pretty sure I mentioned this in my OP). I normally extend about one
mile, here I turned base about a half mile. Like I said before, I have
done short approaches with twins only 3 miles out and it has never
been a problem.


IMHO, your usenet handle is well chosen. If you were my instructor; the
landing would be a full stop, followed by a very firm "You're fired!" (That
is, of course, presuming that I was stricken speechless back when I refused
to turn base.)

Peter

ah, the ol' internet tough guy routine...

wrote in
ups.com:

Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while
landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or
operating on the surface, except that they shall not take
advantage of this rule to force and aircraft off the runway
surface which has already landed...

.... and I believe that the AIM defines "Final Approach" as:
A flight path in the direction of landing along the extended
runway centerline from the base leg to the runway.

--