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A real life pilot's first sim experience



 
 
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  #51  
Old March 2nd 07, 10:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

Mxsmanic IS A MORON writes:

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt - no you're not - it's a game.

Would you like to try again?


Trying again would make no difference. Believe what you will.

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Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
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  #52  
Old March 2nd 07, 10:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

Jay Honeck writes:

Yes, but with far more resistance. Because the resistance is so
light, over-controlling is the norm rather than the exception. This
is true with newbies as well as experienced pilots, so it's not just a
personal preference on my part.


Do the CH pedals have adjustable resistance? The Saitek pedals do. The
Saitek also has a vaguely noticeable "neutral" position, which is handy
although it apparently is not realistic (from what I understand, there is no
distinct neutral to rudder pedals in most real-life aircraft).

Another problem is that the CH pedals actually "slide" back and forth,
rather than going "into" anything. This is a subtle but quite
different feel.


I should think that it would be small enough to not be too important. The
feel of the controls in real-life aircraft can vary just as much, particularly
from one type of aircraft to another. And in some large aircraft, the
feedback is purely computer-generated, just like that of a PC simulator.

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  #53  
Old March 2nd 07, 10:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)
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Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

On Feb 28, 9:18 pm, "Tony" wrote:
The deal is this: I wanted to fly a loop in my M20J for a long time,
but it's hard to get around the 30 degree pitch limitation
certifications and do a loop. isn't it?

MSFS2004 offers an M20M Bravo! And Comp USA is selling that program
for less than $20.

So the four disks came in a couple of days ago, and got loaded into my
laptop. Problem 1: no number pad for pitch and bank. I messed around
with the C172 model and found the up down, left and right arrows did
all of that, although I did not locate a key for return to neutral.

OK, so I played student pilot and F3ed full throttle in a 172, figured
out how to take off and land. TT maybe 15 minutes, and not an
enriching experience.

Loaded in the M20M Bravo. This beast gets yanked around the sky with a
IO 540, my 201 does it with a IO 360. Lots more fuel usage, and a lot
more airplane than I can afford in RL. Never the less, I called up
KBED RR 29, and there I was, at the controls, position and hold!

Neat. No checklist at hand, so I did the best I could with cowl flaps,
wing flaps, trim, fuel pump, and the like, so it looked like this
airplane just might fly. Hold down F3, RPMs came up nicely, and
nothing happened! Message flashed -- parking brake is set, press . to
release.

What frigging pilot pulls onto the active and sets the parking brake?

OK, I put a period to the program, and started to roll, feet twitching
because with an IO 540 this thing should want to turn really badly --
in the M20J I used rudder mostly to keep it on centerline during the
early part of the takeoff roll, figured my little left and right
arrows would have to do the job here.

The Bravo tracked straight down the centerline without any help from
me! This is supposed to be an accurate simulation, with no P effects?
Gimme a break.

OK, I down arrowed at 70 kts -- this takes a lot more rotation (read
that as down arrow) than did the 172, I don't think I broke free until
about 90, way too fast!

Set up a straight ahead climb right out the 11 localizer, my memory
claimed the student practice area was a bit to the north of the 11 29
extended centerline.

Is there anything more boring than watching a simulated climb to 7000
feet? Like watching grass grow.

My plan was to reach altitude, dive the thing down at 45 degrees, let
the speed climb to top of the green, then hold down the down arrow,
and when I was at the top of the loop close the throttle, pray a
little, and try to recover smoothly at the bottom. Guys who have flown
aerobatics know the way you do them is look at the horizon to the
side. I worried about that a little, since the side image was going to
be in front of me, but it turned out to be a non issue. I couldn't
figure out how to get that side view.

The hell with it. I pushed over, and the speed went up really fast!
Mooneys are aerodynamicly clean GA airplanes. I downarrowed (which
means yoke in my lap, I think) and watched the windscreen view change
from ground to sky, saw the AH tumble, saw the ground in the top half
of the windscreen, closed the throttle, and somewhere near the bottom
went forward stick. It was NOT pretty. I didn't have that side view I
wanted. I still don't know how at one point I wound up in a 60 degree
bank! Never the less, I got back to straight and level, and remember
having started the dive from 7000 feet was more than a little suprised
to find the airplane was at a simulated altitude of 5500.

The guy who showed me some things in a 150 Aerobat would have been
ashamed of me. Never the less, I did a loop.

About then the phone rang, and a friend suggested I meet with him and
a few others for lunch. That sounded good.

The sim was paused 30 miles or so from BED, After I got back to my
home office there were some other matters that needed attention and
computer memory. Exit sim

That's it. It was as fulfilling an experience for me as eating cotton
candy -- there just wasn't much there. It simply didn't provide the
kinds of feedback I'd want, and I'm not going to buy a yoke with force
feedback and rudder peddles (sims who use a joystick instead of a yoke
in airplanes that come with yokes are another step removed from at
least what is my reality.

For those of you who get pleasure from the MSFS, more power to you. It
did not work for me. There is a possiblity my mind has been poisoned
to the sim experience, but probably not, I hoped it might be fun ro do
on late nights. Oh well, it was a $20 experiment. The good news is,
that was cheap. Most of my 'experiments' cost a lot more than that.
Want to know how to burn some VC's couple million in a startup
venture? Talk to me!


MS2004 'out of the box' is very poor and has its limitations. Its
basically a base tool for a huge userbase. The huge amount of add-ons
certainly improve it. The default planes included are basically crap
compared to good quality 'payware' planes which have better flight
dynamics and far superior cockpits and controls. Scenery, sky and
real-time updateable weather add to the sim as well if purchased.

I guess by your experience you were using a keyboard which is a big
big no no for any enjoyment in FS. The way the keyboard controls are
initially programmed creates a 'lag' then accelerates the control
input adding a serious sense of unrealism. Joystick or even yoke
controls with separate throttle controls help. Another great hardware
add-on is TrackIR4Pro which allows all head/body movements to be
accurately and smoothly replicated on screen in the virtual cockpit.

You either like it or not and for some less fortunate to fly IRL its
the best we can get ;-)

Ibby

  #54  
Old March 2nd 07, 11:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose
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Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

Boy, I'm having a real clarity issue lately. Must be this weather...

IF you were IFR rated, you could do this newsgroup on instruments.

Jose
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follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
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  #55  
Old March 3rd 07, 01:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Dohm
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Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

I also was an Air Force pilot and NASA astronaut instructor. In both of
these jobs I got lots of time in full blown simulators complete with

motion.
I found them to be boring compaired to real flight. ---snip---


You, sir, are truly a master of understatement!

My RL esperience was in entry level aircraft and I had no experience in PC
based sims, but did happen to get a few minutes in a million dollar plus
true-maotion sim. Even by that comparison, I can only think of sims as
teaching and demonstration tools--for which they are very useful.

Admittedly, a contest type demonstration, such as Jay apparently provides
could be part of an enjoyable evening. But that goes back to the teaching
and demonstration concept.

Peter


  #56  
Old March 3rd 07, 02:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Noel
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Posts: 1,374
Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

I think he meant he can get in atlas any time.


Yep.

Boy, I'm having a real clarity issue lately. Must be this weather...


nah, I'm getting old and slow, (-{

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

  #57  
Old March 3rd 07, 03:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
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Posts: 3,573
Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

Admittedly, a contest type demonstration, such as Jay apparently provides
could be part of an enjoyable evening. But that goes back to the teaching
and demonstration concept.


Incorrect. My suggestion goes straight to the "drink beer and enjoy
yourself" concept...

Yet another beauty of flying the Kiwi...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #58  
Old March 3rd 07, 03:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Tony
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Posts: 312
Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

And that, without a doubt, is one place where a sim rl. It also
makes it easy for the pilot who has had a few beers to remember what
to press when he has to, ah, p.


On Mar 2, 9:45 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
Admittedly, a contest type demonstration, such as Jay apparently provides
could be part of an enjoyable evening. But that goes back to the teaching
and demonstration concept.


Incorrect. My suggestion goes straight to the "drink beer and enjoy
yourself" concept...

Yet another beauty of flying the Kiwi...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



  #60  
Old March 21st 07, 01:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]
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Default A real life pilot's first sim experience

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

MXSMANIC lives in a dream world writes:

It's probably pretty good at simulating what you believe real flight
may be.


Lots of pilots agree with me. Heck, pilots designed it.

You adamantly refuse to listen when real pilots tell you it is
deficient, yet you whole-heartedly agree when they say it's good.


I've done neither.


You are a liar. or delusional. Or both.





Bertie
 




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