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#21
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On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 08:45:30 -0700, Richard Riley
wrote: On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:39:14 GMT, "Blueskies" wrote: : :"ower" wrote in message ... : : "Leon McAtee" skrev i meddelandet : om... : http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/regtsa.html : ============== : Leon McAtee : 70 some years ago in a small Republic about 4000 miles East of : D.C............. : : USA The land of freedom??? : : : :I hope everyone in this group put negative comments up... : I worked with Ruben Ornedo and Chad Keller. I think this rule is overdue, and I completely support it. If (the former) INS won't do it's job, FAA can at least do this tiny sliver. I can not put into words my dispappointment of any one who would make a statement like this. It's not taking on added responsibility, it is giving the responsibility and authority of our aircraft to homeland secutiry. If I have to bring my passport to my BFR, fine. It's not a significant burdeon. And if it makes it a little harder for someone to pack a rented 182 with C4, it's well worth it. I know the Franklin quote. He's wrong. Anyone who isn't willing to give up a little bit of their freedom to save the lives of their children, neighbors and friends is a selfish *******. There is nothing to be gained by giving this up, It is not going to save any more lives than due diligence would. Sorry, but to think other wise is pure ignorance. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#22
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On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 22:59:56 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote: "Richard Riley" wrote in message .. . : (C-182 stuffed with explosives + joint session of congress) * suicidal islamist = no general aviation ever again. You *can't* seriously believe that a terrorist is going to request a BFR. And if for some fool reason he is too stupid to simply write one into his logbook - and does attempt to hire an instructor - that he will not be provided with adequate (but false) proof of citizenship? What false proof. Simply ask your self if this would have stopped Timothy McVeigh had he chosen to use an airplane? Of course to get the results he did would have required a pretty big airplane. Certainly nothing your average, everyday PPL is going to be flying. Also, what makes you believe that proof of citizenship (real or false) is any assurance that the bearer is not a terrorist? This rule will have absolutely NO EFFECT in deterring terrorism. It is another "feel good" gesture. An unfunded government mandate with no other I find it unbelievable any rational person could think such. Of course I do not put the general, unknowing public in that category, but I'd certainly expect any knowledgeable pilot to know better.. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com purpose than to widen government control of the public. And you are ready to kneel down for this? Hard to fathom, Mr. Riley - hard to fathom. Rich S. |
#23
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On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 08:45:30 -0700, Richard Riley
wrote: I know the Franklin quote. He's wrong. Anyone who isn't willing to give up a little bit of their freedom to save the lives of their children, neighbors and friends is a selfish *******. May your chains rest lightly upon you, and posterity forget that you ever were our countryman. With apologies to Patrick Henry. ================================================== == Del Rawlins-- Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply |
#24
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On 10 Oct 2004 17:44:49 -0700, (Paul Lee)
wrote: A lot of this is the result of sensational political paranoia. Terrorists kill a few hundred people a year worldwide. In US alone there are about 15,000 murders per year meaning one in every 200 Don't forget over 40,000 every year in automobiles and we really don't know how many of those are on purpose, but it's probably quite a few. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com people dies of murder in US instead of other causes. But those stats are not important, we are used to them. What counts is the noise of the day. Its not the first time politicians have overreacted - Macartyism, internment of US Japanese citizens during WWII, etc. One day sanity may return again. In the mean time we got to live in fear from ourselves - and maybe that's really how terrorists are winning. |
#25
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Richard Riley wrote: I know the Franklin quote. He's wrong. Anyone who isn't willing to give up a little bit of their freedom to save the lives of their children, neighbors and friends is a selfish *******. May your chains rest lightly upon you, and posterity forget that you ever were our countryman. With apologies to Patrick Henry. Del Rawlins-- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ WoW. Ben Franklin... wrong? Richard Riley.... right? America. What a country!!!! With appologies to Yakov Smirnoff. http://www.delafont.com/comedians/Yakov-Smirnoff.htm Barnyard BOb - The more people I meet, the more I love my dog and George Carlin humor. |
#26
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I know the Franklin quote. He's wrong. Anyone who isn't willing
to give up a little bit of their freedom to save the lives of their children, neighbors and friends is a selfish *******. I'd risk my personal safety to protect the lives of my neighbors, but never my freedom. If that makes me a "selfish *******" than so be it. Besides your logic here is severly flawed. In this case the little freedom given up, and the burden placed on those giving instruction, will not save one single life, unless you count the life of the paper pushing bureocrat charged with auditing all of the flight instructors records, that takes advantage of his tax payer paid health plan. =========================== Leon McAtee |
#27
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Leon McAtee wrote:
I know the Franklin quote. He's wrong. Anyone who isn't willing to give up a little bit of their freedom to save the lives of their children, neighbors and friends is a selfish *******. I'd risk my personal safety to protect the lives of my neighbors, but never my freedom. If that makes me a "selfish *******" than so be it. Besides your logic here is severly flawed. In this case the little freedom given up, and the burden placed on those giving instruction, will not save one single life, unless you count the life of the paper pushing bureocrat charged with auditing all of the flight instructors records, that takes advantage of his tax payer paid health plan. =========================== Leon McAtee Do not forget the addage that if you make enough laws, everyone becomes a criminal. Then when you're in power, you get to lock up whoever you so choose. What worries me is that I have to present my birth certificate to a flight instructor, who is required by law to keep a copy of it. I've had a person steal my birth certificate, get a driver license with it, and then get tickets that were charged to me. The guy paid the tickets so that I never knew they existed...UNTIL..I lost MY drivers license, and I was a truck driver at the time. The police just laughed when I tried to explain that I had never driven a Ford Bronco. Now the Federal government will have semi-professional flight instructors keep a stash of the personal documents of a lot of highly paid people (most people who can afford to fly have some means). I trained at a little airport way out of town. The front door was never locked (so people could use the phone for flight planning), and the door to the CFI's office could be taken out with a good shoulder shove. This bill is an advertisement for anyone wanting to play the identity theft game. I'll give up freedoms for safety...WHEN THE LOSS OF FREEDOM PRODUCES SOME SAFETY!! This bill makes no one any safer except those who would like all the documents they wish to steal to be stored in a central, unguarded place. In this case, I would not object to registering with the FAA before getting flight instruction. It would only have been a difference of about 4mos for me, before I had to register with them anyway. The FAA can then clear that through any other government agency. But CFI's do not have the training or facilities to handle personal documents. -- http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/ "This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)." |
#28
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On 13 Oct 2004 12:24:37 -0700, Bashir Salamati wrote:
In article , Ernest Christley says... Leon McAtee wrote: I know the Franklin quote. He's wrong. Anyone who isn't willing to give up a little bit of their freedom to save the lives of their children, neighbors and friends is a selfish *******. I'd risk my personal safety to protect the lives of my neighbors, but never my freedom. If that makes me a "selfish *******" than so be it. Besides your logic here is severly flawed. In this case the little freedom given up, and the burden placed on those giving instruction, will not save one single life, unless you count the life of the paper pushing bureocrat charged with auditing all of the flight instructors records, that takes advantage of his tax payer paid health plan. =========================== Leon McAtee Do not forget the addage that if you make enough laws, everyone becomes a criminal. Then when you're in power, you get to lock up whoever you so choose. snip I don't have a pass port and I really don't want to have to carry my Birth Certificate with me on every vacation, or trip where I "might" want to go flying with somebody else's airplane, or get a checkout. Actually there are still those with no birth certificate. My dad didn't have one. All he had was an affidavit that said he had been born in Michigan. He didn't get that until he was near 40. Roger So don't give them a copy of your birth certificate. Give them a copy of your passport. |
#29
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Bashir Salamati wrote:
So don't give them a copy of your birth certificate. Give them a copy of your passport. I don't have one. How about if the government wants recordkeeping, let them do it an foot the bill for properly securing said records. Passing the bill off to part time CFIs in order to gloss over the true cost, in both money and freedom. -- http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/ "This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)." |
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