Pawnees powered by Motor fuel .

Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or
advice would be gratefully accepted .

I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do have.
Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all around
the world, but.....

1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several
airframes.
- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a
unit.)

2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS STC's.
- Pawnee D airframe doesn't.

3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things
to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems related to using
MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel.

4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol sold
at airports for use in airplanes.

5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and
earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with the
local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may still
unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for ethanol
before using it.

6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to fight
air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account.

So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator has
to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the STC
requirements.

Bill Daniels



wrote in message
...
Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or
advice would be gratefully accepted .

What equipment is needed, and how does one test for
the presence of ethanol?

Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require
that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery?

At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote:
I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it.
Here's what I do have.
Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for
rmany years all around
the world, but.....

1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS
in several
airframes.
- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be
STC'd together as a
unit.)

2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc
O-540 have MOGAS STC's.
- Pawnee D airframe doesn't.

3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol
- it does bad things
to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems
related to using
MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel.

4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS
containing ethanol sold
at airports for use in airplanes.

5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to
gasoline earlier and
earlier in the distribution channel so that even if
you have a deal with the
local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without
ethanol, he may still
unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch
of fuel for ethanol
before using it.

6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile
fuel blends to fight
air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into
account.

So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee,
the owner/operator has
to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel
used meets the STC
requirements.

Bill Daniels



wrote in message

.com...
Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or
experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel.
Any comments or
advice would be gratefully accepted .

Most excellent reply by Bill Daniels..
May I add that we recently upgraded our O-540 from 235HP to 250HP with an
STC, the STC for the upgrade specifically prohibits use of auto fuel. There
are two parts to the STC, one to upgrade the engine, the other to install
that engine on the Pawnee airframe.

BT

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
...
I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do
have. Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all
around the world, but.....

1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several
airframes.
- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a
unit.)

2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS
STC's.
- Pawnee D airframe doesn't.

3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things
to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems related to using
MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel.

4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol
sold at airports for use in airplanes.

5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and
earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with
the local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may
still unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for
ethanol before using it.

6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to
fight air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account.

So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator
has to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the
STC requirements.

Bill Daniels



wrote in message
...
Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or
advice would be gratefully accepted .

On Jan 20, 4:06 pm, Nyal Williams
wrote:
What equipment is needed, and how does one test for
the presence of ethanol?

Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require
that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery?

At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote:

I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it.
Here's what I do have.
Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for
rmany years all around
the world, but.....

1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS
in several
airframes.
- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be
STC'd together as a
unit.)

2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc
O-540 have MOGAS STC's.
- Pawnee D airframe doesn't.

3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol
- it does bad things
to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems
related to using
MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel.

4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS
containing ethanol sold
at airports for use in airplanes.

5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to
gasoline earlier and
earlier in the distribution channel so that even if
you have a deal with the
local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without
ethanol, he may still
unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch
of fuel for ethanol
before using it.

6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile
fuel blends to fight
air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into
account.

So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee,
the owner/operator has
to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel
used meets the STC
requirements.

Bill Daniels

wrote in message

.com...
Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or
experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel.
Any comments or
advice would be gratefully accepted .

http://autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/pa/ethanoltest.html

It's actually even more complicated.

Many Pawnees have 4-blade Hoffmann props to reduce noise which is not
included in a MOGAS STC's. Others have props which have been 're-pitched'
for prevailing density altitudes at particular gliderports which negate the
MOGAS STC. I suspect some operators are in violation of their STC's an
hoping inspectors will look the other way.

It's also later than we think. I have what I believe to be reliable
information from within a US government agancy that the leaded AVGAS
exemption will soon be vacated - or at least an NPRM to that effect will be
published. The end of 100LL may soon be upon us.

Bill Daniels

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
...
What equipment is needed, and how does one test for
the presence of ethanol?

Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require
that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery?

At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote:
I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it.
Here's what I do have.
Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for
rmany years all around
the world, but.....

1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS
in several
airframes.
- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be
STC'd together as a
unit.)

2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc
O-540 have MOGAS STC's.
- Pawnee D airframe doesn't.

3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol
- it does bad things
to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems
related to using
MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel.

4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS
containing ethanol sold
at airports for use in airplanes.

5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to
gasoline earlier and
earlier in the distribution channel so that even if
you have a deal with the
local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without
ethanol, he may still
unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch
of fuel for ethanol
before using it.

6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile
fuel blends to fight
air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into
account.

So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee,
the owner/operator has
to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel
used meets the STC
requirements.

Bill Daniels



wrote in message

.com...
Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or
experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel.
Any comments or
advice would be gratefully accepted .

I remembered reading about this a couple of months ago from AOPA and a
little digging around found this...........

Bob


Testing fuel for ethanol


The following test can be performed to determine the presence of
ethanol in gasoline.

On a test tube or olive bottle, make a permanent line about two inches
from the bottom.

Fill with water to this line, then fill the tube to the top with
gasoline.

Cover the tube, agitate it then let it stand.

Ethanol mixes with water and the two will separate out together.
Therefore, after mixing the water and the gasoline, if the water level
appears to have increased, then the fuel contains ethanol and should
not be used.

Ethanol fuels can damage the rubber and aluminum components of your
aircraft fuel system. Ethanol increases the volatility of fuel, and
hence the possibility of vapor lock also increases. Ethanol may vent
off at altitude, reducing both range and octane. For these reasons
fuel containing ethanol must never be used in airplanes.

We offer a ready made ethanol tester for $15.00.





On Jan 20, 6:06*pm, Nyal Williams
wrote:
What equipment is needed, and how does one test for
the presence of ethanol?

Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require
that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery?

At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote:



I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it.
Here's what I do have.
Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for
rmany years all around
the world, but.....

1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS
in several
airframes.
* *- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be
STC'd together as a
unit.)

2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc
O-540 have MOGAS STC's.
* *- Pawnee D airframe doesn't.

3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol
- it does bad things
to aircraft fuel systems. *Many, if not most, problems
related to using
MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel.

4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS
containing ethanol sold
at airports for use in airplanes.

5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to
gasoline earlier and
earlier in the distribution channel so that even if
you have a deal with the
local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without
ethanol, he may still
unknowingly do so. *Best advice is to test each batch
of fuel for ethanol
before using it.

6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile
fuel blends to fight
air polution. *STC's for MOGAS do not take this into
account.

So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee,
the owner/operator has
to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel
used meets the STC
requirements.

Bill Daniels

wrote in message

.com...
Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or
experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel.
Any comments or
advice would be gratefully accepted .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 21, 11:38*am, Bob wrote:
I remembered reading about this a couple of months ago from AOPA and a
little digging around found this...........

Bob

Testing fuel for ethanol

The following test can be performed to determine the presence of
ethanol in gasoline.

On a test tube or olive bottle, make a permanent line about two inches
from the bottom.

Fill with water to this line, then fill the tube to the top with
gasoline.

Cover the tube, agitate it then let it stand.

Ethanol mixes with water and the two will separate out together.
Therefore, after mixing the water and the gasoline, if the water level
appears to have increased, then the fuel contains ethanol and should
not be used.

Ethanol fuels can damage the rubber and aluminum components of your
aircraft fuel system. Ethanol increases the volatility of fuel, and
hence the possibility of vapor lock also increases. Ethanol may vent
off at altitude, reducing both range and octane. For these reasons
fuel containing ethanol must never be used in airplanes.

We offer a ready made ethanol tester for $15.00.

On Jan 20, 6:06*pm, Nyal Williams



wrote:
What equipment is needed, and how does one test for
the presence of ethanol?

Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require
that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery?

At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote:

I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it.
Here's what I do have.
Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for
rmany years all around
the world, but.....

1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS
in several
airframes.
* *- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be
STC'd together as a
unit.)

2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc
O-540 have MOGAS STC's.
* *- Pawnee D airframe doesn't.

3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol
- it does bad things
to aircraft fuel systems. *Many, if not most, problems
related to using
MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel.

4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS
containing ethanol sold
at airports for use in airplanes.

5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to
gasoline earlier and
earlier in the distribution channel so that even if
you have a deal with the
local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without
ethanol, he may still
unknowingly do so. *Best advice is to test each batch
of fuel for ethanol
before using it.

6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile
fuel blends to fight
air polution. *STC's for MOGAS do not take this into
account.

So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee,
the owner/operator has
to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel
used meets the STC
requirements.

Bill Daniels

wrote in message

.com...
Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or
experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel.
Any comments or
advice would be gratefully accepted .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have used a cleaned out gatorade or other soft drink bottle many
times for testing ethanol. piece of cake. no need to spend 15 bucks
for a 'tester'

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
...
What equipment is needed, and how does one test for
the presence of ethanol?


Some people claim that 1/4 of an Alka Selzer in the bottom of a coffee cup
works well - no fizz, no alcohol (or water)

It's come up, like, a million times over on R.A.Piloting

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

wrote in message
...

I have used a cleaned out gatorade or other soft drink bottle many
times for testing ethanol. piece of cake. no need to spend 15 bucks
for a 'tester'


That's work, however a narrower container, like a test tube, uses less fluid
to do the test.

bumper