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Remote thermal detection



 
 
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  #41  
Old October 6th 16, 01:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Craig Funston
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Posts: 208
Default Remote thermal detection

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 2:04:16 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
I'm also a fan.

No, it won't turn the sport into a video game, any more than vario and GPS did. Flying -- and racing -- airplanes without engines will always be a challenge.

It will be the single greatest increase in performance since fiberglass (also loudly predicted to kill the sport).

Thermal detectors will end start gate roulette, gaggling and leeching and team flying. There is no need to wait for other gliders if you can detect thermals on your own.

Thermal detectors will also enhance safety. Finding that last thermal might help an outlining. More importantly, if you really know there are NO thermals out there, you get busy with the business of landing!

Even 200 feet will be of immense use. Really, all the great team flyers are getting for their efforts is sampling air 200 feet away. Imagine if you had two guys 200 feet ahead one on each side 45 degrees -- any of us could win the worlds. Think of how many great contests have been won or lost by missing one thermal by a few hundred feet.

Contrary to earlier posts, so what if it doesn't work all the time! Give me a thermal detector that works 200 feet out 1/4 of the time and I can win any contest!

More physical principles:

Doppler Lidar, of course. Somewhere I saw the military is working on a portable lidar based system that detects crosswinds to make shooting more accurate. That's just what we need.

Non-doppler lidar. Thermals have more dust in them than surrounding air. See the concentration of dust, bugs, etc. and you know where the thermal is..

Radar, as mentioned. Tuned to bugs, birds, moisture gradients, etc.

Passive radar. Radar needs power. But why shine your own light when the FAA does it for you? Monitoring the primary and return echoes you should be able to see what's out ahead with no primary source.

Shimmer. As reported here, Boeing was working on a system to process visual images for shimmer to see clear air turbulence. Set up video camera to take pictures every second or two, software to compare the images, and enhance shimmer induced turbulence, thus seeing thermal structure.

More optical. Process optical images to see birds! (and other gliders) Again, take two optical images a few seconds apart, signal process to correct for glider motion, then show anything that's moving. (The last two, since they only involve taking pictures, would be arguably legal under US rules too. SHHH. )

Humidity. Infra-red cameras tuned to moisture frequencies, like the satellite moisture channel. Thermals are more moist than the surrounding environment.

You don't need to see motion, you only need to see structure of the air and you can deduce motion.

Bring it on!

John Cochrane (Flame suit on)


John, I completely agree. Many of our most important scientific advances are based on improving our ability to "see" the world around us. Telescopes, microscopes, radar, the list goes on and on. I'm eagerly awaiting improvements in thermal detection for sailplanes. I don't see it taking away the fun or the magic. There's still lots to explore.

Craig
  #42  
Old October 6th 16, 03:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Posts: 236
Default Remote thermal detection



Shimmer. As reported here, Boeing was working on a system to process visual images for shimmer to see clear air turbulence. Set up video camera to take pictures every second or two, software to compare the images, and enhance shimmer induced turbulence, thus seeing thermal structure.

More optical. Process optical images to see birds! (and other gliders) Again, take two optical images a few seconds apart, signal process to correct for glider motion, then show anything that's moving. (The last two, since they only involve taking pictures, would be arguably legal under US rules too. SHHH. )


John Cochrane (Flame suit on)



The possibility of using machine vision, as John mentions above, is indeed intriguing from both the lift sensing AND the anti-collision angles. Of course, such a device would have it's tactical uses in soaring contests, not that anyone cares about THAT. What I like is that machine vision collision avoidance, being passive, would not depend on everyone else installing equipment. Ideally, it would point out all traffic, including birds. Seems to me that UAV's are a huge and growing market for that sort of tech. Sort of surprising then that I have seen only one machine vision anti-collision system being marketed.

I have tried posting about this a couple of times on RAS, mainly to see if anyone here knows anything about new developments along this line, so please do comment if you have seen or heard anything pertinent.

Wallace Berry (currently working with engineers to apply machine vision to chicken farming)
  #43  
Old October 6th 16, 04:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Soartech
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Posts: 268
Default Remote thermal detection

machine vision. I've envisioned a system similar to what hawks might use. A video camera with telescope in the cockpit is connected to a computer and to a very sensitive vario. The idea is for the camera to spot bugs, leaves, etc. in the air and then determine their vertical motion and approximate rate. Since we are a moving platform we must subtract out the motion of the sailplane in the vertical to obtain a true picture of what the remote objects are doing. If you've ever looked at distant bugs with a powerful telescope you know the problems that would occur with this scheme. But it could be done.
  #44  
Old October 10th 16, 04:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Posts: 236
Default Remote thermal detection

Link to a DARPA machine vision system for aviation collision avoidance:

http://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2016-04-05a

Link to a system apparently already on the market for UAV's:

http://www.sara.com/isr/uav_payloads/oca.html
  #45  
Old October 10th 16, 05:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Remote thermal detection

One of those optical systems mounted on the glare shield would be great
for collision avoidance assuming a decent user interface, however
there's no current way to look out behind you for overtaking aircraft.

On 10/10/2016 9:27 AM, WB wrote:
Link to a DARPA machine vision system for aviation collision avoidance:

http://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2016-04-05a

Link to a system apparently already on the market for UAV's:

http://www.sara.com/isr/uav_payloads/oca.html


--
Dan, 5J
  #46  
Old October 11th 16, 01:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Posts: 236
Default Remote thermal detection

On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 11:30:46 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
One of those optical systems mounted on the glare shield would be great
for collision avoidance assuming a decent user interface, however
there's no current way to look out behind you for overtaking aircraft.

On 10/10/2016 9:27 AM, WB wrote:
Link to a DARPA machine vision system for aviation collision avoidance:

http://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2016-04-05a

Link to a system apparently already on the market for UAV's:

http://www.sara.com/isr/uav_payloads/oca.html


--
Dan, 5J


Yeah, it would take another unit or at least another set of sensor cameras to cover the rear. The cameras on the SARA unit look pretty small so should be possible to fit rearward facing cameras in small fairings. Maybe into something like the control horn fairings on the wings.
 




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