Jep p or NACO Charts?

I tried the Jepps and while they're nice .. I didn't like paying more
or the hassle of updating. With the Jepp I had to subscribe to an
area of about 10 states. So while comparing the price of those
same states with NACO .. it was close .. I didn't NEED all the
extra areas. With NACO I could buy books with just a couple
states in them and get exactly the ones I needed.

I'm back to NACO.


"Judah" wrote in message
.. .
Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far superior
to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I looked at it for
myself, I just can't figure out how to justify spending all that extra
money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

In a previous article, (Ben Jackson) said:
I keep waiting for an approach-plate-sized ebook that I can load up with
the DVD of plates. So far I can't find the right hardware...

There are lots of them out there now, but they all cost $4000 and more.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The people here have other bones to pick -- possibly including yours.
-- Mike Andrews

wrote:



Maybe, but the Class II notams are available to anybody doing a DUATS
briefing, for free and more current (and again, no updating pages)

They lose the pictures for the few that contain them.

And if you use a FSS there's no guarantee you'll get them.

Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, (Ben Jackson) said:

I keep waiting for an approach-plate-sized ebook that I can load up with
the DVD of plates. So far I can't find the right hardware...


There are lots of them out there now, but they all cost $4000 and more.


Actually, they're coming down (especially if you don't give a hoot about
it being "flight approved").

In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:

wrote:



Maybe, but the Class II notams are available to anybody doing a DUATS
briefing, for free and more current (and again, no updating pages)

They lose the pictures for the few that contain them.

And if you use a FSS there's no guarantee you'll get them.

Sounds like yet another a good reason to prefer self-briefing with DUATS
over FSS.

I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but...

The idea that my tax dollars are going to pay for somebody to read a
computer printout to a pilot when he could read it himself just as
easily is absurd. Or for that matter, to play data entry clerk with
flight plans.

Yes, this service is essential for in-flight needs, or for those times
when there's no duats access available (pretty rare these days). But
I've watched pilots sit down in front of the computer in the pilot
lounge and pick up the phone to call 1-800-WX-BRIEF. It just doesn't
make sense. Especially since you can get plain-english if you don't
want to read the coded version.

Roy Smith wrote:


Sounds like yet another a good reason to prefer self-briefing with DUATS
over FSS.

I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but...

The idea that my tax dollars are going to pay for somebody to read a
computer printout to a pilot when he could read it himself just as
easily is absurd. Or for that matter, to play data entry clerk with
flight plans.

Yes, this service is essential for in-flight needs, or for those times
when there's no duats access available (pretty rare these days). But
I've watched pilots sit down in front of the computer in the pilot
lounge and pick up the phone to call 1-800-WX-BRIEF. It just doesn't
make sense. Especially since you can get plain-english if you don't
want to read the coded version.

Frankly, Roy, before 9-11 I'd agree with you 100%. The NOTAM system
was (still is) horrendously broken, and your chances of getting relevent
NOTAMS was a crap shoot, even when you KNEW that there should be a NOTAM
for a particular location.

I still DUAT, but since I have to get stuck in the 20 minute call queue
to file to get out of my home field, I still end up having to talk to
the Ed's at the Leesburg AFSS.

Of course if they cut all all of this bull**** security window dressing
the load on the DC area FSS and ATC outlets would become managable again.

There's a lot to what you say. I virtually always use Duats. However ..
I've found on long XC's I do just what you're saying and call FSS
while I have the info in front of me and get their take on what's going
to happen. I find it valuable when away from home base.



"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:

wrote:



Maybe, but the Class II notams are available to anybody doing a DUATS
briefing, for free and more current (and again, no updating pages)

They lose the pictures for the few that contain them.

And if you use a FSS there's no guarantee you'll get them.

Sounds like yet another a good reason to prefer self-briefing with DUATS
over FSS.

I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but...

The idea that my tax dollars are going to pay for somebody to read a
computer printout to a pilot when he could read it himself just as
easily is absurd. Or for that matter, to play data entry clerk with
flight plans.

Yes, this service is essential for in-flight needs, or for those times
when there's no duats access available (pretty rare these days). But
I've watched pilots sit down in front of the computer in the pilot
lounge and pick up the phone to call 1-800-WX-BRIEF. It just doesn't
make sense. Especially since you can get plain-english if you don't
want to read the coded version.

Wow, not one pro for the Jepps. I used to use NOS but switched to Jepps for
the Northeast. Dropping by the pilot shop is not too convenient for me since
I normally get in the air after work, I would get a subscription to NOS.
Let's see, for the same coverage, I would need 4 NOS books @ $4.25 each.
That's $17.00 every 28 days which equals $221/year. If you factor in the
shipping for the charts @ $5 per shipment, that's $65.

So all things being equal (specifically the convenience of delivery
service), we are talking about $286 (NOS) versus $255 (Jepp).

I would start your analysis there according to your situation. Look at:
* if you can easily stop by a pilot shop during business hours every time
you may do an approach
* the possibility of a missed approach to another "NOS book" (e.g. missed in
Long Island, NY with the better weather being in Connecticut)
* preference on the "usability" of the charts. I personally like Jepp better
for their intuitive features
* what your real approach use-profile will be (mostly practice or real IFR
flying, one approach every other month or monthly use, etc.)

NOS is really not a lot cheaper for the same coverage and same service.

Marco Leon
(no affiliation with Jeppesen. Although, even their employees don't get
discounts on charts...)



"Judah" wrote in message
.. .
Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far superior
to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I looked at it for
myself, I just can't figure out how to justify spending all that extra
money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

In a previous article, "OtisWinslow" said:
There's a lot to what you say. I virtually always use Duats. However ..
I've found on long XC's I do just what you're saying and call FSS
while I have the info in front of me and get their take on what's going
to happen. I find it valuable when away from home base.

I'd ammend that to "sometimes get their take on what's going to happen".
I've had FSS briefers who go far beyond and give me insights based on
their experience and I've had briefers who do nothing more than read what
I've already got printed out from DUATs. I have to say in my meagre
experience the best briefings I've gotten have been from the FSS guy on
the field leaving Oshkosh, and from London Ontario FSS.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Do you have a point, or are you saving it for a special occasion?
-- David P. Murphy

In a previous article, "Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com said:
Let's see, for the same coverage, I would need 4 NOS books @ $4.25 each.

You don't have to pay list. I subscribe through flyairways.com, and pay
$3.19 per NOS book.

That's $17.00 every 28 days which equals $221/year. If you factor in the
shipping for the charts @ $5 per shipment, that's $65.

So all things being equal (specifically the convenience of delivery
service), we are talking about $286 (NOS) versus $255 (Jepp).

Or considerably less for NOS delivered to your door if you actually shop
around a bit.


Personally, 90% of my flying is in New York and Ontario. So I subscribe
to the NOS and Canadian charts I need for that, and when I have a trip to
somewhere else it's easy to pick up another state or two at the local
pilot shop, like I did for Oshkosh or Parent's Weekend at my
step-daughter's college. I tried the Howie Keefe system for approach
charts and found it too much of a pain to keep up to date.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Once you have an emergency, the airplane belongs to the insurance company.
Concentrate on saving people on the ground, your passengers, and yourself,
in that order. Saving the plane is not on the list."